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BagisBerra t1_jbpn4b7 wrote

Innocent until proven guilty. If he's guilty, then throw his ass in jail. Death penalty. What ever. But if he's not, then lock him up at a secret location in a dictatorship country I guess. No trial. No representation. No rights.

I love the US, but this reflects poorly on you I am afraid. This is beneath you. Be better. Do better. Lead by example. Or be less surprised when people hate America.


sciolisticism t1_jbpt59d wrote

The people who find this repugnant probably aren't surprised when people hate America.

The people who see no problem with Gitmo probably don't care why people hate America.


Tobias_Atwood t1_jbq7hs8 wrote

>The people who see no problem with Gitmo probably don't care why people hate America.

They'll loudly cry and gnash their teeth about how anyone could think we aren't the best that ever existed but when you start listing reasons why we aren't the best they throw an even bigger toddler tantrum before stomping off to rage binge more fox news.


BagisBerra t1_jbptonx wrote

Good point. I think that today, when we have authoritarian leaders in countries like China and russia committing terrible crimes against humanity, it is more important than ever to hold ourselves to higher standards, the moral high ground. If we are the good guys, and they are the bad guys, then now is a good time to act like it.


i81u812 t1_jbqplu7 wrote

I am a hundred percent in agreement that this is appalling. I am 100 percent in agreement that having people detained with no due process i preposterous. I am also 100 percent over being lectured by other countries with their own atrocious nonsense going on, especially while once again the world won't take a collective shit and stand up for itself against yet another regional dictator (call Vlad what you want, they are Europe far east) who is no where near our shores, invades a European country without real cause or consequence. I won't throw shade at the people who live there with the nonsense that I 'don't WANT to hate [insert country here] but you should do this, do that. So on. It's just like - sit down we all doing the same shit across the world.


BagisBerra t1_jbs0fty wrote

I'm from Sweden, please tell me what atrocious nonsense we are doing these days? So no, we are not all doing things like this. Terror russia? Yes. They have lost their finger pointing privileges, yes. But is "look! they are doing bad shit also" the argument you wanna lead with really? That's what children say. Be better. Do better. Be that city upon a hill, the beacon of hope. So no, I won't sit down. And neither should you. Your government is capable of this. You think it won't happen to you, because you're "not like them". Well what if you're wrong. What if you find yourself wrongfully accused? What if them suddenly includes you. The term "enemy of the state" has been quite flexible historically. Stand up against injustices, including those who do not effect you. Because "them" may change. And injustice is just plain wrong.

And not to argue with you, but what I am seeing is a clear case of Europe collectively standing up against russia and their dictator, the support for Ukraine here is massive and we are sending support like never before. What I was getting at was this Gitmo guy, the Gitmo locked up guy, he probably hates. His family and friends likely too. So if you keep this shit up expect hate. Expect enemies. And my argument was that there might be a valid reason for that given the special hospitality the US have shown him. I don't hate you. But in your war on terror you are creating terrorists if you keep acting like this.

Your shores are comfortable. You have one nice and one incapable neighbor. Congratulations. That's not the European experience I am afraid. We have russia and had Germany. Less comfy.

And Happy Cake Day!