Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

ncc74656m t1_jdcxa5p wrote

Reply to comment by yawaworht-a-sti-sey in An Arizona plant will pull CO2 from the air and trap it in concrete by captainquirk

The one thing I can say though is that if they are doing it to sequester carbon from their processes, it might actually be more beneficial than simply planting trees and hoping for the best, especially when the plant in question is located in desert areas.

It depends on how efficient the process is though, because if it's only partial capture, or the concrete suffers in some manner requiring more replacement, etc, then it might not be. But really, we are pretty well way beyond the point of being able to tree our way out of this. We need active sequestration methods and potential active decarbonization of the atmosphere now, and likely still then some weather modification like solar screening via reflective gases or particulate in the atmosphere.

2

yawaworht-a-sti-sey t1_jddb148 wrote

Your money would be better spent giving india and china free solar cells than this pie in the sky active sequestration shit. That can wait until we actually have cheap and carbon neutral energy to throw at it.

We'd be better off just biting the bullet and going for ocean fertilization or dumping sulfur dioxide in the upper atmosphere if we're that desperate.

1

ncc74656m t1_jddfchl wrote

TBH we probably already need the sulfur dioxide. But also, if we're giving away free solar, we should probably work on finishing ours here, too. But of course, we'll never do that either if our pols are still monetarily beholden to the fossil industry.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is the solution, or even a good final one. Just that it's something we probably need, and on the heavy assumption that it is being done properly and with enough efficiency, it's a step in the right direction. And of course, seeing that this is in AZ, it's quite reasonable to say it should be solar powered to boot.

2

yawaworht-a-sti-sey t1_jddftg4 wrote

I think it's a waste of time and money and if we're going for pie in the sky like this we and we might as well throw the money at fusion or something instead since that might give us the energy for us to do something like this in the first place.

0

ncc74656m t1_jddhb6x wrote

Fusion is probably a (very) long term solution, and tbh, unless we're also prepared to supply that to the rest of the world, it's not really a fix. Much of places like India, China, Africa, and South America require socioeconomic change too, but the catch is, most of those problems are either enabled or straight up caused by Western capitalism, and capitalism is quite happy with those results thank you much.

So, really, the best we can do is minimize what we're creating, keep planting trees as you say, and try to capture what remains.

1

Itsumishi t1_jdf207v wrote

Lower carbon concrete is not remotely as much a pie in the sky proposition as fusion. Not even comparable.

1

yawaworht-a-sti-sey t1_jdfgym1 wrote

we're talking about sequestering carbon from the air and storing it. Low carbon concrete isn't even carbon neutral.

1

Itsumishi t1_jdflgn0 wrote

Sequestering carbon from the air is only a small element in this particular trial (and to be honest I suspect that's a journalistic error).

The bulk of carbon emissions in the manufacture of concrete come from the processes which occur during the creation of cement. There's two elements to this:

  • Current methods of creating cement involve heating limestone and clay to around 1400 degrees Celsius. Its hard to hit these temperatures without large inputs of fossil fuels.
  • The chemical process which occurs within the limestone during this baking releases A LOT of CO2. (This is the most carbon intensive bit).

So to achieve lower carbon intensity, we need new methods of producing concrete that use significantly less cement (which is how this trial aims to achieve the bulk of its CO2 reductions); and/or we can capture some of the CO2 from the limestone and embed the carbon back into the concrete.

Pulling it from the air does seem incredibly inefficient when the concentrations will be much higher in the exhaust and waste gasses than the atmosphere. This is where I think the journalistic error occurs. The article says they'll use the AirCapture technology - but I suspect they'll use that technology within a closed system - not just pulling it from the nearby atmosphere.

And yeah - it still won't be carbon neutral, but a significant reduction in a very carbon intensive process is still better than not doing it.

1

yawaworht-a-sti-sey t1_jdgszyh wrote

>And yeah - it still won't be carbon neutral, but a significant reduction in a very carbon intensive process is still better than not doing it.

In the absence of superior alternatives which should always be pursued first in order of efficiency.

>Pulling it from the air does seem incredibly inefficient when the concentrations will be much higher in the exhaust and waste gasses than the atmosphere. This is where I think the journalistic error occurs. The article says they'll use the AirCapture technology - but I suspect they'll use that technology within a closed system - not just pulling it from the nearby atmosphere.

And it is incredibly inefficient but as marketing it works - the comments here are proof of it.

1