SafeHayven t1_iuoxdtr wrote on November 1, 2022 at 11:21 PM

Reply to comment by Computer_Sci in Tokyo begins same-sex partnership recognition by AsslessBaboon

-Japan isn’t that homophobic, and most of the anti-gay sentiment was imported from the West and China.

-China is heavily influenced by Confucian philosophy, which is deeply sexist and homophobic.

-Russia is heavily Orthodox Christian, and was also influenced by Marxism and Islam. Hardly atheistic.

-Korea is pretty heavily Christian and Confucian as well.

godisanelectricolive t1_iup9mvj wrote on November 2, 2022 at 12:48 AM

Confucianism is not explicitly homophobic. gay or lesbian sex was accepted as long as you also marry the opposite sex and have kids. China was not traditionally homophobic when you look at its history. There were gay emperors like Emperor Ai of Han, Emperor Zhengde of Ming and Emperor Tianqi of Ming. Tianqi had a palace just for male lovers and another for female lovers. There were lots of records of court concubines coupling with each other. Homoerotic art and poetry was pretty common.

Gay sex was only criminalized for the first time in the 18th century due to Western influence, using a translation for the word "sodomy". Homophobic attitudes didn't become widespread until the 20th as China "modernized". It's a similar story as what happened in Japan. Before the Meiji period same-sex activity was pretty commonly accepted. Similar story in Korea, gay sex was never seen as scandalous in the old days.

But same-sex marriage was never proposed back then because back then love marriage was unheard of. People had arranged marriages for practical reasons, to benefit the family and pass on the family name. Things have changed though. Now many marriages between heterosexual couples don't result in children, which was exceedingly rare a hundred years ago.

Even in Muslim or Christian societies a prohibition against gay sex hasn't always been the norm. Some sections of the Bible or the Quran get emphasized at certain periods of history but other times they are just seen as irrelevant.

SafeHayven t1_iupgdro wrote on November 2, 2022 at 1:37 AM

This is still a form of homophobia—to be forced into a relationship with someone to whom you’re not attracted just to meet some arbitrary social norm. Love among gay and lesbian people is not primarily about sex, but attachment and mutual understanding. Ancient society tolerating a few very powerful ancient leaders’ practice of “”loving”” concubines (who typically were not there by consent) does not equate to gay acceptance. Not even close.

This is not to mention that the traditional concept of marriage in China (and, to be fair, many other places worldwide) was more like a slave contract than a relationship. As you mentioned, marriages were arranged based on superstition and social position, rather than chosen based on love. And the woman was seen as an object being purchased, a domestic servant / baby incubator sold from one man (her father / family head) to another (her husband).

So yes, I 100% stand by my comments that Confucianism is sexist and homophobic.

Xylus1985 t1_iur49nh wrote on November 2, 2022 at 12:40 PM

China is not really homophobic and there are gay and trans celebrities who are celebrated. It’s more that the family value emphasis on you having children because traditionally the family takes care of the elderly.