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navywater t1_iuskbud wrote

We already tried this I think it was Norway. They paid Brazil a billion dollars to not clear and develop a large section of the rainforest and then Brazil cleared it anyways.

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GMN123 t1_iuthmzp wrote

I hope they sued

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fettuccine_sequence t1_iutnca4 wrote

Brazilians ARE suing them! I won't go long with this, but this is something that people keep getting this mixed-up. They aren't "paying to develop" anything, they are paying to mine that land. Norway-owned Norsk-Hydro has caused many issues in the Amazon Rainforest as it is their main source of bauxite. Since Norsk-Hydro took over in the early 2000s, there has been a serious increase of toxic materials spills. Lead, chromium, mercury, barium, aluminium and others. Water and soil are getting contaminated, people are getting sick and dying, while Norsk-Hydro tries to compensate that with just some meal vouchers and whatnot.

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2358452 t1_iuuc28j wrote

I am a little confused by this comment.

Norway is paying (along with Germany) for the Amazon fund, which I believe was a fairly independent organization with input from Brazilian government as well as donors from other countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/16/norway-halts-amazon-fund-donation-dispute-brazil-deforestation-jair-bolsonaro

In 2019 with a sudden increase in deforestation, they decided to cease funding, which is definitely not " just some meal vouchers and whatnot" -- it was about $1.2b in total over a decade from Norway.

Now independently of this, there is a single norwegian company called Norsk-Hydro that has been accused of releasing waste into a river in the amazon. It has not gone to trial yet as far as I know.

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fettuccine_sequence t1_iuufmqd wrote

It is pointless to fund conservation while also partially own a company contributing to the contamination and deforestation process.

> The court accepted, on October 19, to hear the lawsuit filed by the Association of Caboclos, Indigenous and Quilombolas of the Amazon, Cainquiama, and nine other people. The victims are seeking financial compensation for at least 10 large spills of "red mud", a toxic sludge composed of clay, silica and metal leftovers from the refining of bauxite, the ore that gives rise to aluminum. The tailings are dumped by Alunorte and Albrás, Hydro's affiliates and subsidiaries in Brazil. Six of its Rotterdam-based subsidiaries are listed in the case.

> The process in Rotterdam now moves on to the merits phase - that is, the judicial analysis of the request for financial compensation based on the evidence and defense arguments of the parties. The association is represented in the process by the British law firm Pogust Goodhead - the same one that defends those affected by the collapse of the Fundão dam in Mariana - by the Brazilian lawyer Ismael Moraes and by the Dutch law firm Lemstra van der Korst.

> "We have great hope and confidence that the Dutch Justice will finally decide for reparation for these people, who have been suffering for decades. The acceptance of jurisdiction, in itself, already represents a milestone towards justice for those affected, which unfortunately we have not achieved in Brazil," said Moraes.

> According to the lawyer, if there is an award for compensation, the money will be received in an account in the Netherlands and then legally transferred to Brazil.

> Hydro said it "will present its defense following the legal procedures in the Dutch justice". The company "vehemently denies the allegations presented by the plaintiffs" and said that it "is committed to being a good neighbor, acting responsibly and putting health, environment, and safety first wherever it operates.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

https://theintercept.com/2022/10/21/norsk-hydro-aluminio-contaminacao-bacarena-para/

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2358452 t1_iuuhsxa wrote

I also don't like what they seem to be doing, thank you for the link! Hopefully the international courts fully investigate the issues.

But I also think their help is extremely significant, they should not be discouraged of helping even if their home companies are contributing to deforestation. In reality deforestation is an enormous issue distributed across many states and vast lands, involving many industries including wood and cattle ranchers, as well as mining as in this case (which beyond deforestation also poisons communities, illegal gold mining has been a huge source of mercury contamination). I believe in this case we should treat the issues separately, and not criticize them for their donation, but investigate the mining issues very seriously (they seem very grave, including widespread lead contamination).

Hopefully we can get this fixed according to better standards, and also resume foreign contribution to the Amazon that is much welcome and needed!

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