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not_that_planet t1_iy8ez9m wrote

Reply to comment by tearsaresweat in Dominican sugar imports tied to forced labor rejected by US by tnick771

Was gonna say... "forced labor". Isn't there another word for that?

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samanime t1_iy8pmuv wrote

Strictly speaking, slave labor is forced labor, but not all forced labor is slave labor.

Community service is technically "forced labor", but those people aren't slaves.

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chrisp909 t1_iy9rrow wrote

The 13th amendment of the US Constitution seems to disagree.

>Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

"Forced labor as a punishment for a crime" could be considered involuntary servitude if it was in repayment for a fine, I suppose.

Involuntary servitude involves debt of some kind.

If the labor performed was the original sentence punishment, or if you are a prisoner doing compulsory work for the state then it's considered an exception and is legal slavery in the eyes of the US constitution.

Pretty sure that's how this works. Not a lawyer though. Would love to hear from one if I'm wrong.

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samanime t1_iy9t0eq wrote

The Constitution doesn't say that doing "involuntary servitude" makes you a slave. It is just outlawing both, other than in cases of punishment for a crime.

Being a slave generally means you are treated as the property of someone. You can be forced to perform labor without being considered someone's property.

Also, I was talking in general, plain language sense, not in the sense of a legal definition in a single country...

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chrisp909 t1_iya0ehr wrote

>The Constitution doesn't say that doing "involuntary servitude" makes you a slave.

Correct. As I stated they are two different things.

Involuntary servitude is forced labor that involves a debt.

Slavery is forced labor but there is no debt associated with it. Documented ownership of a person isn't necessary.

You stated that community service isn't slavery. According to the US Constitution it is or can be. It's forced labor so why wouldn't it be?

Sorry if this was confusing for you.

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samanime t1_iya3bwq wrote

Slavery =/= involuntary servitude and slavery =/= forced labor (though slavery can involved forced labor)

All forced labor is not slavery. Community service is involuntary servitude, repaying a debt to society for a crime.

They are different. I'm not the one confused.

And even if the US Constitution said otherwise, that wouldn't alter the plain language understanding of the terms for the whole world. The US =/= the world.

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chrisp909 t1_iyab25r wrote

>Community service is involuntary servitude, repaying a debt to society for a crime.

Under your definition, just being in prison is involuntary servitude. I don't think that's an accurate definition to a lot of people.

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>And even if the US Constitution said otherwise, that wouldn't alter the plain language understanding of the terms for the whole world. The US =/= the world.

Your colloquial definitions may be correct to you or even in some countries / regions but language and colloquial definitions are not apples for apples all over the world.

You != the world.

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