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citytiger OP t1_iyksm5i wrote

This is in Toledo, Ohio.

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JKnighter t1_iylvz1x wrote

As someome from Toledo, Spain I was REALLY confused about that because I don't remember us having a Zoo and definitely not one suitable for polar bears

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TerrenceJesus8 t1_iymrf7j wrote

Always wanted to go to Toledo, Spain!!!! Need a Toledo to Toledo exchange program lol

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gblandro t1_iymjgqo wrote

I love that city so much, do you like living there?

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[deleted] t1_iylbh54 wrote

[removed]

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n8_mop t1_iyldn1h wrote

To be fair, our zoo and art museum are unreasonably good.

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-Goo77Tube- t1_iym8hlq wrote

As a former Toledoan, I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, if anyone asked me what I liked about Toledo, my response was typically those two things and the metro parks. Not much else going for it, but goddamn the museum and the glass pavilion are world class.

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Jfurmanek t1_iynqht5 wrote

Northern Ohio has amazing parks systems in general. Lake, Geauga, and Cuyahoga counties all have substantial metro parks holdings.

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n8_mop t1_iyutskn wrote

The metro parks are high tier parks, but I wouldn’t recommend them as a selling point for visitors. If someone is moving to the area though, they are a stellar amenity. It’s always blown my mind that the sand dunes at Oak Openings are an endemic ecosystem.

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round_a_squared t1_iyowcqp wrote

I'm about equally far from both the Toledo and Detroit zoos, and for a while the Toledo Zoo was arguably better.

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Allmightydohllah t1_iyldpp8 wrote

True, but that's because they're the only thing the city has going for it.

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eatenbysquirrel t1_iylxrs7 wrote

Kinda weird to express it that way. They are good because they are ran by competent people i think. Not because the town just chose those two things to excel at.

But anyway, yay polar bears! Can't wait to see em in Spring time

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mezzyjessie t1_iylzwyp wrote

Old school Packos… RIP. I am not a fan of the McDonald’s version they rolled out a few years back. Yes I know the OG is still there, but it’s not the same.

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Perry87 t1_iym5182 wrote

Not even the best dogs in town

Fight me

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mezzyjessie t1_iym83jf wrote

Rudy’s, Central, Jan’s or Mud Hen’s? I would love to hear what your favorites are! We’re always looking for better places.

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Perry87 t1_iym8ieg wrote

I grew up in Birmingham but whenever the family went for hotdogs we'd get Rudy's and they're my go to when I'm in town and looking for a quick lunch. I haven't had Jan's or dogs from 53rd

There was a place by Lee Williams on Starr that had good hotdogs but they're not open anymore. I think it was called Pete's

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NWOMrs t1_iymuu8i wrote

Yes, it was called Pete’s and it was the absolute best!

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TheFlyingBoard t1_iymxuwp wrote

Petes was absolutely fucking amazing. I used to go there all the time with my great grandfather before he passed. I was heartbroken when i heard that they shut down

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jedidoesit t1_iylkuy3 wrote

Literally right above your comment is the subreddit rules outline that says this place should be free of excessive cynicism, negativity and bitterness. Toxic attitudes are not welcome.

Then, in large, bold font, it says all negative comments will be removed and will possibly result in a ban.

I read the warning for the first time being in this subreddit and the very second comment I read violates that rule like Ye's inner thoughts violate our ears when he speaks.

Hilarious! 🤭😁😂

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Tommyblockhead20 t1_iyli5zj wrote

Cheap housing! It’s like a fifth the cost of major costal cities. Sure, Toledo (and Ohio in general) is more boring, but I’d rather be complaining about the lack of things to do than about downing in debt as so many are these days.

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super1701 t1_iyly83w wrote

"cheap" If you live in Toledo, but who the fuck wants that. The outside burbs are all 150k+ for a decent house.

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Allmightydohllah t1_iylj4ar wrote

I lived in toledo all my life up until I moved to the Bay Area. The reason it's so cheap is because there is no work there unless you know somebody who blows somebody who can hook you up with a job. They don't call it the rust belt for nothing.

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Tommyblockhead20 t1_iyljfpb wrote

I mean, there are jobs. Sure, maybe there’s not as many, and if you have a very specific field you want it might not exist there, but many jobs do exist. The area I live in has been growing, various major companies have been moving in recently. And family literally moved to Toledo when I was a kid because that ended up being the best spot for my dads industry after all the jobs in California and Massachusetts kept falling through.

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klydsp t1_iyldk97 wrote

And the museum, they have a righteous amount of art and artifacts

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OpinionBearSF t1_iylnjg1 wrote

> Nice about the polar bears, but fuck Toledo. Only redeeming things about that shit hole is the zoo and art museum.

Plus it's Max Klinger's hometown! (The reluctant cross-dresser from MASH)

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Marcaveli7 t1_iylsipa wrote

What happened to you in Toledo bro? Share the story.

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dark_hole96 t1_iyltdtz wrote

I've lived in Toledo all my life, this man is sptting facts. As other commenters have also pointed out tho, our zoo and art museum are great. Also cheap housing because its a shithole

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super1701 t1_iyly5xd wrote

Woah Woah, The walleye are great ok. Hockey games are always fun. But yeah toledo is not great.

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stone111111 t1_iylw08w wrote

I've been to Toledo many times in my life.

If I wasn't just driving through, I went straight to the zoo and straight back home.

Best zoo.

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dpash t1_iyldmiz wrote

I was gonna say that Toledo, Spain is near one of the hottest places in Europe. Not ideal polar bear climate.

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SlaveCell t1_iylkaen wrote

They only come here on their summer vacations

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klydsp t1_iyldfpt wrote

He'll yeah my hometown has the best zoo I've seen out of many states. I remember when they had an albino alligator, it was wild to see. Plus you can walk with the penguins in the cool newish exhibit. It's probably been there for 10 years now but I still think it's awesome. The coolest thing there is the big main cafe. It has large bars around it because it actually used to be the monkey exhibit.

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goddamnitwhatsmypw t1_iylfjjq wrote

The cafe was the big cats not monkeys iirc.

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Saalome t1_iymp3uj wrote

Confirmed, watched my friend get peed on by a big cat during a field trip from those very cages!

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Stegosauruslyfe t1_iymty2m wrote

It also used to house chimps at one point as well so technically not monkeys lol

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souperpun t1_iymj5dc wrote

We drive from an hour away in Michigan to go to this zoo--it blows all our local ones out of the water!

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couchasianktina t1_iyktxum wrote

This is a great zoo. Congrats Crystal!

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n4te t1_iymheyh wrote

I'm not sure any zoo can be considered good. Why are there polar bears in Ohio? Japan?

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srsrmsrssrsb t1_iymkvin wrote

Zoos are good. In addition to public education, they have a lot of conservation and repopulation programs for endangered species. Plus, most zoo animals nowadays are animals who were born and raised in captivity or are animals who can never be released into the wild because of injury or trauma. Plus, in a zoo the animal will always have access to veterinarians.

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n4te t1_iymol5d wrote

I suppose at least some of that's right. The last time I went to a zoo was in Tokyo and they had a polar bear. It didn't look like the right climate and he looked miserable. Feels bad to support that, though I don't have all the details. I'm sure many zoos aren't doing it for the animals.

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kozy138 t1_iyn4ayv wrote

Tbf, I've seen pictures of some pretty miserable looking polar bears in the wild as well.

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LegendWait4it t1_iynd8lq wrote

Many zoos are good* If you haven't seen the bad once I wish I was you.

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srsrmsrssrsb t1_iynsduj wrote

I'm well aware of how horrible the worst zoos can be, but not all of them are so because of profit incentives. Some historical zoos (especially in lesser developed, less wealthy nations) who want to do cutting edge conservation programs for their local wildlife (e.g. Thao Cam Vien in Vietnam is the only zoo to have successfully bred the critically endangered Vietnamese crested argus pheasant in captivity, which is the zoo I grew up visiting) are limited by their funding and even more so because of COVID restrictions on zoo visitation. But nevertheless, zoos have come a long way from being complexes of dull, torturous prison cells.

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LegendWait4it t1_iynzw9h wrote

You don't have to convince me, I'm with you! But great info for the once reading this thread so it wasn't for nothing!

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MM_mama t1_iykul8m wrote

Wow, that video is the best thing I’ve watched in awhile! Love seeing the mama and baby snuggles.

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NotYetSoonEnough t1_iyl0jbs wrote

A polar bear cub cuddle is a very prestigious cuddle, Bob.

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KetoKelsey t1_iyoh840 wrote

Yasssss Bobs Burgers!!! They’re calling it a Christmas Bearicle.

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xRyuzakii t1_iymf6we wrote

The toledo zoo is wildly underrated. Probably the best one I’ve ever been to

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toomuchredditmaj t1_iyn55ey wrote

To bad it’s surrounded by the city of toledo

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Call_Me_Koala t1_iyo9f5c wrote

The best thing about Toledo is the zoo, the worst thing about the zoo is the Toledo

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TheCheddarBay t1_iyly6wt wrote

Go Crystal, pulling down some of that younger polar bear tail!

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aharringtona t1_iymizc8 wrote

The Toledo zoo is one of the best in the country.

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AutoModerator t1_iykslhc wrote

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danhalka t1_iymfndr wrote

cubs to be named RC and... Tab?

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abby61497 t1_iyn3ufy wrote

As a former toledoan, the zoo is by far the best part of the city for me

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cfanity_now t1_iymz1yv wrote

Last time I went to the Toledo zoo the water in the polar bear exhibit was so green and murky you couldn’t see the bear in the water. It was disgusting and they should be ashamed. We were not impressed with the overall condition of many of the exhibits. Omaha has the best zoo in the US.

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goddamnitwhatsmypw t1_iypxivq wrote

If it's been quite a while since you've been to the Toledo Zoo the Polar Bears have a much bigger enclosure than they did once upon a time. The green Polar Bears were absolutely a thing from the algae in the water. The pacing behavior of the bears did continue to happen once in their new larger space... it's still captivity.

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Lockenheada t1_iyqmm08 wrote

"Scientists believe that most polar bears limit travel to home ranges of a few hundred km. However, they know of one satellite-tracked female that trekked 4,796 km —from Alaska's Prudhoe Bay to Greenland to Canada's Ellesmere Island and back to Greenland again!"

Thank god they have "a much bigger enclosure" now and the zoo is breeding more bears into captivity to attract visitor traffic and sell tickets, but god forbid someone says something.

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goddamnitwhatsmypw t1_iyt9tkv wrote

I was sharing historical information about the bears and their condition. There's a reason we call them charismatic megafauna. Please continue to share facts that show the problems in the industrial zoo complex.

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Lockenheada t1_iymlh7q wrote

Ah yes, breeding huge animals which normally live in sub zero climate into zoos where it's warm. most of the year to attract visitors and framing it as conservation. Good news good news I bet they gonna love their little confined spaces for the rest of their lives.

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HellsMalice t1_iymul6y wrote

It's okay to be a moron who doesn't understand things but I wouldn't exactly express it to the world via reddit.

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ToblemromeTBC t1_iymngrh wrote

Good, now don't sell them to a Zoo and release them once old enough.

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hankepanke t1_iynebb7 wrote

They won’t have the skills to survive in the wild. In the arctic, cubs spend a couple years learning how to survive from mom. These cubs are destined to be in enclosures for the rest of their lives instead of ranging across thousands of square miles. A lot of captive polar bears develop visible signs of stress from living in captivity like shaking their head back and forth repeatedly or swimming or running in circles. Even if you think that zoos are a necessary evil, this isn’t exactly uplifting news.

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Lockenheada t1_iyqmysw wrote

People just wanna feel cute feelings about the cubs and not feels bad or conflicted about it so everyone who dares to critizise the actual benefit of human made zoos gets downvoted.

"Havent you read the Zoo brochures?? Havent you seen their funded propaganda where they tell you they are really really good guys? Zoos are totally necessary you know and they are actually good" /s

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Nawnp t1_iym6xcq wrote

So cute, but also when they're grown they're one of the most brutal killing machines. They're fun to watch while not in hibernation at the zoo though.

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w6a6t6sup t1_iylsi96 wrote

2 more wild animals to lock up in a cage for life.

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hankepanke t1_iykzl0c wrote

They are adorable, but why are we breeding captive polar bears that will never get to roam the arctic and catch seals and do polar bear things? A small enclosure isn’t a place for a bear built to wander.

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impshial t1_iyl4syf wrote

Polar bears are on the endangered list due to climate change, and the Toledo zoo is helping these bears safely have cubs in controlled environments. A lot of these animals are born in captivity, and released into the wild once they are able to protect and feed themselves.

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PixelateddPixie t1_iym0z92 wrote

The exact thoughts I had in my mind while reading this article and watching this video is how zoos are a necessary evil in this world. Not all of them are good. The animals aren't living the same lives they would in the wild. But the good zoos will do everything they can to ensure these animals are happy and help ensure that currently endangered animals do not become extinct.

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hankepanke t1_iylf7jh wrote

They aren’t being raised to be released though. They are being raised to be zoo animals. Bears raised in captivity probably aren’t well suited to surviving in the wild anyway.

>The AZA attempts to play matchmaker with polar bears by studying a number of factors, including genetics, of each one on a case-by-case basis. Through its species survival plan, the AZA is trying to stabilize the population of zoo-owned polar bears, which had plummeted to only 41 last fall after peaking out at 200 polar bears in 1995.

>There are now only 40 zoo-owned polar bears - 17 males and 23 females in the United States. They are spread out across 21 institutions, according to Allison Jungheim of the Como Park Zoo & Conservatory, who tracks captive polar bear trends for the AZA.

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/animals/2022/03/02/newest-member-of-toledo-zoo-s-arctic-encounter-exhibit-is-unveiled/stories/20220302054

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DuckyDoodleDandy t1_iyl1787 wrote

Possibly to preserve the species as the Arctic melts? (Just a guess; the zoo could totally be doing it for selfish/evil reasons. I haven’t researched it.)

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hankepanke t1_iylgav2 wrote

The species isn’t going to be preserved by a few dozen bears in zoos that get progressively more inbred, and less like their wild counterparts. The species will be preserved by preserving land and mitigating climate change. But that doesn’t make money.

In the wild, polar bears range over thousands of square miles. Keeping them in a pen is like keeping orcas in a tank. We used to be ok with captive show orcas but we’ve had to adjust based on what we consider ethical.

> It's not possible to offer them any kind of diversion or activity in a zoo that can replace these lost challenges. That's why many polar bears kept in zoos show symptoms of abnormal behavior like permanently shaking their heads, running up and down or swimming in a stereotypical fashion. These acts are ways in which they try to compensate for what they’re lacking.

https://amp.dw.com/en/polar-bears-should-not-be-kept-in-zoos-at-all-says-the-german-animal-welfare-association/a-37843062

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PixelateddPixie t1_iym170r wrote

With the way that climate change is impacting the artic, I think zoo captive Polar Bears are a necessary evil. I highly doubt that good-working zoos in this age will be inbreeding their polar bears. But the alternative is that polar bears become a creature of the past.

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derbryler t1_iymas76 wrote

They will still be extinct even if they are in a zoo. They are not expressing natural behaviour in 40m².

What difference does it make if they are not in their habitat acting out the role they have in it?

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PixelateddPixie t1_iymcujo wrote

There is a difference between extinct in the wild and extinct in the world. I fully suppert animal rights and it's a career I want to work with in the future, however, I think it's beneficial to the growing human population to see these animals and realize the impact our choices have on these wonderful creatures.

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derbryler t1_iymga15 wrote

But look at where we have this discussion. People will see the animals in the Zoo and think oh nice at least they are still here.

We have pictures and videos we can remember them by should they die out. But our goal now should be to prevent that from even happening.

But think of it this way. The enclosuere in toledo cost $11.500.000 Source. Then you have to add the additional upkeep.

All of that money could have been spend on conservation in its natural habitat.I really belive that everyone working in Zoos is not doing it to hurt animals and because they truely love them.But please if you want want to work for the benefit of animals help, where they need it now to prevent them from going extinct even if that means you will not have direct contact with the animals.

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sskk2tog t1_iyn0moh wrote

How would you use that money to enact change? Because it's not just the USA causing climate change.

Is 11.5 mil going to aller the course of our plutocracy? Are we going to be able to change china's inputs to global warming with that 11.5 mill?

Yes, some people just go to see the fluffy "cute" animals. However, a large part of the newer exhibits are education. And education that is built in a way that's fun to engage in.

On top of that, odnr just (October, 2022) awarded the zoo with a quarter of a million dollar grant specifically for wildlife conservation. Part of their funding already DOES go to that.

Idealistically, I am not a fan of zoos as far as animal welfare goes. Reality is much different than an idealistic world, though. Idealistically, we would have an income cap so no one person could horde wealth, and I would love to see that happen.

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PixelateddPixie t1_iyoi20c wrote

Exactly. These well-managed zoos are some of the best sources of money specifically for helping conserve the wildlife population. These zookeepers and other employees work there because they love the animals and want to contribute towards more research and conservation efforts to protect the animals we keep in the zoos. I love zoos and I enjoy taking my friends because I have a lot of animal knowledge and I can teach them a lot beyond what the plaques show. However, I only go to zoos that have made an obvious effort to provide the animals the best habitats within their means and are confirmed to assist conservation efforts.

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Radzila t1_iymgzrf wrote

https://www.dw.com/en/polar-bears-in-captivity-does-it-help-or-hinder-conservation/a-19072830

Same website

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hankepanke t1_iyn7a57 wrote

Yeah it’s the same website, does that matter though? The link I added was an interview with head of the German Animal Welfare Association and his views and experience. Even in the article you linked this passage sums up the argument:

> Such behavior, Hoeffken details, is reflected by a polar bear running or swimming in continuous circles, or repeatedly moving its head back and forth.

> Polar Bears International's Steven Amstrup has another point of view. He says that because zoos provide polar bears with their all nutritional needs - something they’d normally have to travel for in the wild, captive bears can therefore live in smaller, more confined spaces.

> "The idea that zoo animals are depressed or stressed opposes the fact that polar bears typically live far longer in captivity than in the wild," Amstrup adds.

The zoos can provide sufficient nutrition and keep polar bears alive for awhile, but is it ethical to keep them in an enclosure that makes them have psychological problems and physical tics? Just because we can keep them alive longer doesn’t mean they have a good life.

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Radzila t1_iyttzkf wrote

I think it really does depend on the zoo. Some are very terrible. But should we just sit back and let the species die knowing we can help? It's not about keeping the same animal alive longer. It's about education and research on the breed. The animals live longer because they have constant care. I've also noticed a trend toward giving animals more space and recreating natural habitats in a lot of zoos. Plus most in the states are regulated and inspected regularly by the government.

Zoos are important

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sylvanwhisper t1_iym74nc wrote

The people in this thread who think breeding an animal to suffer is better than not having the animal go extinct make me queasy. This is not positive news and I cannot believe you and anyone else pointing out this fact are being down voted.

These animals will grow up an an enclosure that is exponentially too small for them. They will slowly become mentally ill. They will suffer and be miserable. And they will die.

This is like thinking that dogs who live their whole lives in a kennel is a better alternative than the dog being out down.

It's devastating that polar bears will likely be extinct in our lifetime. It's just as devastating and cruel to breed them for captivity in this way.

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hankepanke t1_iynb9wp wrote

Thanks buddy, I kind of feel like I’m taking crazy pills that people are viewing this as only good news, so it’s good to know I’m not the only one.

There are 20,000-25,000 polar bears left in the world. 40 captive bears that will not be released into the wild are not a factor when it comes to conservation genetics. I get the zoos as a necessary evil argument for public education and I think it has some merit, but I think it also tricks some people (see this thread being in r/upliftingnews) into thinking we are doing more for the species than we actually are. Documentaries can show people how awesome these creatures are and the imminent threat they are facing. A captive polar bear surrounded by glass and metal shaking its head back and forth or swimming in circles isn’t the image people should have.

Even at its best, I’ll put some emphasis on the ‘evil’ part of necessary evil. Some animals can adapt ok to well-run zoos with large enclosures and space for the animals to be away from humans if they choose. Polar bears are not one of those animals.

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birdfacebirdy t1_iylqgx0 wrote

For real, this is sad news. Two polar bears born in prison with a life sentence.

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coasterreal t1_iym5qgo wrote

If you haven't been paying attention, their habitat is disappearing pretty damn fast. Captivity may be the only way to keep them from going extinct if we continue on at this pace.

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derbryler t1_iymacgj wrote

Still extinct in the wild. They will not be able to get reintroduced as well.

But at least we can look at them in a 40m² enclosure not even displaying the behaviour they do in the wild.

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birdfacebirdy t1_iymdj77 wrote

This, exactly.

We cruely destroy their natural habitat and cage them in our zoos where they can fry under the sun in the summer. If this is preservation then be better let them die peacefully.

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