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sourpussmcgee t1_j84sxh0 wrote

Lol the largest sanctioned child abuse ring in the world doesn’t want to follow mandated reporting laws. Shocking.

It’s what Jesus would do.


Shisty t1_j87msex wrote

if they opt out they should lose their tax exemption.


ForsakenFurball t1_j84zhx6 wrote

This is disgusting. They care more about protecting abusers than about protecting children.


Rocketgirl8097 t1_j858vta wrote

This is bs. Clergy should report all crimes heard in confession. And I was raised Catholic. Not so much any more because they won't clean house on stuff like this.


darlantan t1_j85ynyn wrote

> Clergy should report all crimes heard in confession.

I disagree with this, but crimes with definite victims who are not able to protect themselves certainly deserve to be reported.


Rocketgirl8097 t1_j86cpm6 wrote

Why don't you think all crimes should be reported? All crimes have a victim. How about identity theft, especially that takes advantage of elderly?


Obtersus t1_j86ghl8 wrote

>All crimes have a victim.

No, they don't. This should be true, but there are loads of victimless crimes people get arrested and imprisoned for. Things like possession of a controlled substance.


doge_gobrrt t1_j872h9k wrote

ikr it's a free country

if you cause yourself damage through some drug that's on you right?


Obtersus t1_j8793ut wrote

Believe it or not, straight to jail.


doge_gobrrt t1_j87iwt7 wrote

believe it or not straight to jail

straight to jail with you


Rocketgirl8097 t1_j89my31 wrote

The physical damage is to you. Did you work or drive while high and potentially harm someone else? What about the emotional damage to the family? The damage to taxpayers to keep you in jail?


domestication_never t1_j870w4k wrote


During a meeting with a Catholic children's charity, Pope Francis said that he felt “compelled to personally take on all the evil” perpetrated by some priests, because “you cannot interfere with children.”

Pope says so. No tolerance. Good Catholics listen to the pope.


drew1010101 t1_j84u9ep wrote

Just as god intended. /s


jrhoffa t1_j85qlh0 wrote

If you heard half the stories about the shit their god got up to, you'd realize that it's not a joke.


faman00 t1_j85icj1 wrote

/r/pastorarrested will explain why. Christian clergy have a long and ugly tradition of abusing children.


Obtersus t1_j859hg6 wrote

For those that didn't read it, the bills are attempting to add clergy to the list of mandatory reporters. The argument against it focuses specifically on confessionals. They (clergy) want confessionals to not be counted for mandatory reporting. That's the exception they want.


Kickstand8604 t1_j873dfb wrote

That ain't gonna happen. "But he said that in confessional, so it doesn't count" WA gov: well shit, why don't you say 5 hail Marys and pay us 30 grand


Obtersus t1_j879kis wrote

Yeah, it's interesting because if you were actually repenting a sin, you'd submit to the authorities and admit your guilt and deal with the punishment. The Bible is very clear on doing that. Not sure why they want an exception, to be honest. Either the confessor isn't actually trying to make themselves right with God and it doesn't matter if they confess or not, or they would willing submit themselves and it wouldn't matter if the clergy were mandatory reporters.


anti-zastava t1_j84l5zf wrote

I haven’t been following this one, but did Catholicism turn out to be a weird child r*pe cult or what?


InSearchOfUnknown t1_j859t0l wrote

Must be real cozy under that rock if this is the first time you've heard of the Catholic church abusing children.


Actor412 t1_j861ajp wrote

This is a very common kind of post bad faith actors will put out. I call it a what-me-worry post. It's designed to downplay the issue, as well as putting the burden of proof back on the ones exposing the crimes.

Other variants: Are cops really that violent? How come I've never heard of climate change before this? What makes trump so bad, cant we just forget about him?


Gwtheyrn t1_j85yuo6 wrote

Not as such. It's not the norm, but sexual abuse is shockingly common in the church and not just young boys. Nuns are known to molest underage girls, and sexual assault by priests upon nuns happens way more than people realize.


New_Year_New_Handle t1_j85l9yx wrote

Stop the excuses and mandate reporting of abuse.

It's not just a venal sin. It's also a felony.


Burner_979 t1_j85wj84 wrote

But if it's not reported, then it won't end up a felony! /s


AtomicGiant t1_j84m4ta wrote

This headline should be rephrased as “Lawmakers were incapable of doing a strict law that obligated everyone to report child abuse cases”. Not religious people in particular, the loophole is open for everyone as long as can claim that is a protected speech because of the constitution


RainCityRogue t1_j851qgp wrote

But that headline wouldn't match the content of the article


LydJaGillers t1_j852hj5 wrote

It’s a catch 22 right. The entire basis of confession is trusting the guy you tell your deepest darkest secrets to, right? And if you can’t trust him (obviously I’m not supporting the church’s stance here) then people won’t talk.

So the abusers confess bc they know they won’t be sent to prison. But if they know he will tell, then they aren’t likely to confess, defeating the purpose of both reporting and confession.

I want them to be forced to report. But I don’t see this as increasing the ability to catch paedophiles.


darlantan t1_j85z2ck wrote

> And if you can’t trust him (obviously I’m not supporting the church’s stance here) then people won’t talk.

If your deep, dark secret is that you continue to molest children...well, maybe you don't deserve to get a free pass out of any feelings of guilt you might have, or at least not from a source that will do essentially nothing to prevent you from doing it again.


LydJaGillers t1_j87vwgn wrote

I mean that’s my point. They feel they can get away with it via confession so they confess knowing no one will report them. Neither situation will stop the crime. It’ll just make getting the confession out of them less easier.


Actor412 t1_j863y9k wrote

The problem is that the RCC itself doesnt respect "the sanctity of confession." They have used the information revealed to remove predators from high-income, high-visibility areas and move them to places where they can rape kids & no one will know. ie., Places that oversee native/indigenous kids.

The RCC didn't turn a blind eye to the issue: the knowingly and intentionally promoted it by moving child molesters to oversee kids, as well as bribing and manipulating officials to allow it to continue.

This isn't just a Washington issue. The same modus operandi has been going on across the world, for as long as there are records.

edit: spelling


Rocketgirl8097 t1_j859i69 wrote

I don't know that they can think this rationally. Or they wouldn't be doing what they are doing. The confession is to "save their soul."


Karmakazee t1_j85eyho wrote

Confession is to exert power over group members by requiring them to bare their deepest darkest secrets to an authority figure on pain of eternal damnation. Plenty of cults use the same tool. It’s shockingly effective at keeping people obedient and amenable.


CharlieChowderButt t1_j85geuv wrote

An E-Meter can’t rape a kid. I guess at least the Scientologists have improved something.


Karmakazee t1_j85gj5z wrote

Give them a couple thousand years to refine their techniques. I’m sure they’d get there.


Lucretius_atoms t1_j85xa41 wrote

Only the Catholics? Given what happens in virtually every evangelical church, JW "Kingdom Hall", etc...


PepeLePuget t1_j84zgnp wrote

Incoming qanon condemnation in 5…4…3…

Oh who am I kidding. They don’t give a rats ass what their own team does. It’s just a tool to slander their opponents.


482022lv t1_j860icz wrote

At this point, if you still belong to the Catholic Church, you must on some level be ok with what they are doing. It’s no longer a case of “a few bad apples.”


sulla_rules t1_j869z5e wrote

Catholics protect their own clan of pedophiles, how does anyone believe in their organization


Old-AF t1_j87ou9z wrote

Heinous. And they wonder why people are leaving the churches in droves.


Lch207560 t1_j851ku3 wrote

There is no chance this will ever happen. Xtian clergy have special privileges available to no one else in America,including here in Washington, except military.

This includes special access to elected officials. Go to the contact web page for any elected official at the federal or state level in Washington and there's a special check box for military and clergy.


Team_speak t1_j85n5ny wrote

I still identify as a cradle Catholic, but have walked myself and my money away from the church. You don't get my money and get to preach while you're protecting abusers. Abusers who have hurt children, nuns, and who knows who else. Don't be surprised why people have walked away (for other reasons too).


newsreadhjw t1_j860ziy wrote

Catholic priests will never follow the law on this. They have their own “canon law” and will do whatever their bishops say first before they go to the cops. When’s the last time you heard of a priest going to the cops to report a priest abusing kids? It never happens. They follow the same wagon-circling protocol absolutely everywhere. Europe, South America, Australia, US, doesn’t matter where. It’s astonishing how consistent catholic priests’ behavior is on this point.


katzrc t1_j86qog0 wrote



Onlycardleft t1_j86w5h8 wrote

I am Catholic. I am disgusted at how the church hierarchy has handled sexual child abuse in the past. The church now has its own mandatory reporting protocol, and I favor mandatory reporting for everyone as a general rule. However, the issue of privilege is complex. Washington has a clergy penitent privilege, a spousal communication privilege, an attorney client privilege, and a doctor patient privilege. If a sexual child abuser sees a psychiatrist for help, should the psychiatrist be required to report communications made in the course of treatment? If so, no one will be seeking help. The clergy penitent privilege normally requires the communication to be made in the course of a formal confession recognized as a religious practice, and not a casual conversation. In the Catholic Church confession is a formal ritualized sacrament in which the priest may not reveal the communication to anyone. The penitent is anonymous at their discretion. I doubt that priests will be reporting such communications regardless of the law due to inability and obligation of confidentiality. And in most cases, they won’t even know who is making the statement given the anonymous nature of confession. So elimination of the privilege will, at most, discourage abusers from talking about their compulsion. I don’t see a net benefit in eliminating the privilege. Moreover, what about the other privileges? Lawyers reporting on their clients? Psychiatrists? I think the complexities of the issue are lost in the offhand derogatory comments about the Catholic Church. Of course, no privilege exists if the reports are made by third parties such as parents or pediatricians, or victims. Please note that I am as pissed as anyone about how stupidly and wrongly the church hierarchy handled reports as everyone else making comments. It would take me 10 pages to discuss the failures of the church. But the comments, in general, are superficial and the article is not accurate. This issue deserves better reporting.

TL,DR: In the Catholic Church confession is anonymous. But we can make lawyers report on their clients.


Rocketgirl8097 t1_j872t29 wrote

Lawyers do have to report information that could stop a crime about to be committed.


Onlycardleft t1_j877sfp wrote

Yes, that is true. But confession is about past offenses. Should lawyers be required to report past child abuse offenses of their clients that are unknown to the police? Mandatory reporting is about past offenses, as well as ongoing offenses. Why make priests obligated to report past cases of abuse, but not make the perpetrators’ lawyers also obligated to report on their clients’ undiscovered past crimes? I’m just saying that the situation is more complex than the article discussed. It did not delve into the distinction between past offenses and other offenses. And spouses?


1dad1kid t1_j8asnt8 wrote

Psych and other healthcare workers have to report as well.


rourobouros t1_j86iqcg wrote

Ought to cross post in not the onion


PuzzleheadedEssay198 t1_j874rba wrote

Catholics are a minority in WA, so unless they wanna fuck off they don’t have enough parishioners or money tied in the state to mean anything.


Onlycardleft t1_j87mh3j wrote

First, 35.5% of the people in Washington are religious (attend church), of which the largest group, 12.2% are Catholic. That is about 4.3%. I think the next largest church is LDS/Mormon. But Catholics vote in higher numbers than average. (Google checked.)

Second, there is a history of discrimination against Catholics (both as a religion and based on ethnicity) in Washington state. I am old enough to remember when my father applied for a job with a public school district in the late 60s, and the issue of “whether we want to give that job to a Catholic” was discussed by the local school board at a public meeting. Pejorative remarks were pretty common in some, but not all, communities before 1970. The Klu Klux Klan was very active in the PNW (WA and OR) in the first half of the 1900s, and burned a cross on the lawn of a local state legislator who happened to be Catholic. Signs saying “No Irish Need Apply” were code for “No Catholic Need Apply”. For this reason, I think practicing Catholics are somewhat alert to how their legislators vote in issues that are specifically directed to Catholics. On social media like Reddit there are a lot of comments about the Catholic Church which do not distinguish between the parishioners, and work done by Catholic hospitals, housing, mental health and addiction treatment on one hand, and abusive priests on the other hand. 4.3% of a high percentage voting block is enough to get a legislator’s attention, especially if they are aware of the sensitivity of those voters to past discrimination.

I am in no way minimizing the actions of abusive ministers, priests, or Boy Scout leaders. Twenty years to life would be a fair prison sentence. But anyone involved in sexual child abuse cases on a professional level can pinpoint the moment the realized, in shock, how prevalent it was. I do not think we have really developed a systematic way to deal with the problem, or fund the solution, that is accepted and understood on a broad scale. We tend to deal with individual cases when when they affect someone we know. About 1 in 7 girls and 1 in 25 boys will be sexually abused before they turn 18.


PuzzleheadedEssay198 t1_j87nqnc wrote

The whole region is still a haven for far right activity to this day because of those roots laid back then, but also the influx of Asian and Hispanic people has made those same groups much less discriminatory towards European Catholics as long as they would also act shitty to Catholics from Latin America, Vietnam, and the Philippines.

You can’t NOT be well aware of those signs because YALL WONT SHUT UP ABOUT THEM. Every St. Patrick’s day I have to explain the difference between the way Irish were treated and the way black people are STILL treated, the fact that indentured servitude and slavery are fundamentally different things, and the one sided rivalry between the Freemasons and the Catholic Church.

That said, the reason why we don’t discern between The Church and The Followers is simple: continuing to attend services, perform rituals, and tithe to the church is a form of support- and supporting an organization, tacit or implicit, that has gone out of its way to cover up and excuse rampant sexual abuse of children is inexcusable. You fundamentally cannot compare the prejudices of the past to the behaviors of today.

And despite KNOWING this reputation, KNOWING how this would read, they STILL have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern day where God’s Law is functionally meaningless in the Pacific Northwest.


Onlycardleft t1_j87oeyo wrote

> That said, the reason why we don’t discern between The Church and The Followers is simple

Who is “we”?

Edited to add: I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intent. I was responding to your “f-off” post, read my comments in that context. I have spent some years as a GAL for children, many of whom have been abused or neglected. I have friends who have been abused. I think we, as a society, have made little progress in dealing with sexual child abuse and behavioral health issues as preventative or remedial treatment. And while the Catholic abuse scandal has unique characteristics, it is inaccurate to view it in isolation. Rather, it is part of a larger social and behavioral health problem. Criminal prosecution is essential, but we need to provide funding for treatment as well. As aweful as abuse by Catholic priests is/was, it is only a small percentage of total sexual child abuse incidents. 1 in 10 children are sexually abused, mostly by people in their household or by other relatives. Many more children are subject to physical violence or neglect. (And don’t get me started on lack of funding for addiction treatment.) So I think we are arguing over color of the guillotine.

I am not responding further to the gentleman.


PuzzleheadedEssay198 t1_j87p84i wrote

>”On social media like Reddit there are a lot of comments about the Catholic Church which do not distinguish between the parishioners, …. on one hand, and abusive priests on the other hand.”

“We” is assuming you were lumping me in that group while you sit on a high horse making excuses for the second wealthiest religious institution on God’s Green Earth.

You also followed that with “I am in no way minimizing the actions of abusive ministers, priests, or Boy Scout leaders.” And then went on about how there’s no good solution to the problem, when the solution is staring you in the face- you hold the offenders accountable. That seems to have worked with that last group and hasn’t been applied on a meaningful scale to the first two because of the raw magnitude of the institution, and since they won’t hold THEMSELVES accountable it falls upon the state to fill in the gap. There’s policies in place for secular institutions like healthcare and education, so it only seems reasonable to expand those policies to religious institutions.

The fact that it seems no other religious institution has any complaints with this EXCEPT Catholicism really speaks volumes.