Oh yeah I had a similar thought last night as I was trying to sleep. Are we in daylight or standard time right now, I can never remember...

Sunrise is at 8 AM. I guess we're in standard time now, so as you say, if we kept "daylight savings" then sunrise would be at 9 AM. Bleh.

The time change is still annoying, we should probably just keep it on standard time. That might mean sunrise is at like 4 AM in the summer? Kind of annoying...but better than messing with winter darkness times.

I’m ok with that. Ski hills would likely open up later. It’d be nice to not have to wake up at 5 to get a parking spot at Steven’s pass on a weekend.

I quoted “Daylight Saving” because the amount of sunlight does not change. So, whether it is 5am (where ante meridian means something) or 6am matters not. You’re just making up a number.

We have 7.5 hours of cloudlight. We are going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark. It doesn't matter.

In summer it matters very much to have extra light after work.

Besides, we've already voted. WA OR CA and Canada's PST regions approved DST forever several years ago.

The only thing standing in our way is FL rep's pushing nationwide DST. Which hilariously accidentally already passed in the Senate. Congress hasn't bothered with it.

I think it's the wrong approach. Currently any state can opt out of DST, but due to poorly worded legislation, can't opt in permanently.

State's right you do you. It's so bizarre that wasn't the proposed model.

I was half agreeing with you, half being silly.

Keep the clocks the same, but open the ski hill “later”, I.E still at the exact same sunrise.

Keep my 8-4 office job still 8-4, regardless of when it gets bright.

This reminds me of a bit of historic trivia: In 1582 the length of a year was recalculated to be more accurate. The inaccuracy had grown to be 5 days and had led to all kinds of screwed up dates for events like Soltices, but had also made it hard to calulate Easter. Pope Gregory introduced the reformed calendar, now called the Gregorian Calendar.

Most of the world adopted it, but in some places the peasants rioted because they believed they were being cheated of their "days"!!

Russia kept the Julian Calendar, and by early 1900s they were 11 DAYS off. After the Russian Revolution their calendar was changed to match the rest of the world, but the Russian Orthodox Church still calculates Easter the old way, so it's usually a week or 2 weeks later than the rest of the world.

I thought summer was when the ‘saving time’ and winter was standard. So really winter hours/time would stay the same while the summer hours would get adjusted if we were to discontinue DST.

We did permanent daylight saving time in the 1970s, and it was a disaster. It turns out a snap public opinion isn’t the best way to determine the right thing to do.

When we say “noon”, it means something. Don’t change that, but instead change the time we do things. The result is the same, but the connection to the sun is maintained.

It would be akin to folks saying it’s too cold in the winter, so lets shift the temperature by 10 degrees.

Everyone that says, “but I get out of work too late,” is missing the point. I don’t know why changing the hours we open an office is seen as harder than changing the clocks on the wall. Start with schools and the government. Summer hours are already a thing.

The current plan is to extend Daylight Saving Time year round. This was also done almost 50 years ago—and was abandoned. I suppose those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

So you hate democracy and want to impose your "correct" will on all of PST who already voted on what they want? Did you really just propose that? I don't think you want to assign yourself time dictator and try to overtake the world, right? Surely something is being lost in transition?

You already lost. We already voted. Just has to pass the house now, it has passed every other check. The only reason it didn't go great in 74 is too early school start times, and those are now later in most places, and easy to make later where they aren't. Give it up.

Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others.

If I were hoping to be a dictator, why would I try and sway public opinion on Reddit? My hope is to remind folks that they’re about to repeat the same mistake 50 years later. The beauty of clocks (and “clockwise”) is our Sol. If humans embrace the heavens, instead of thinking we control it, we will reconnect with nature.

Ah, so you’re changing event times AND the clock on the wall. Congratulations on winning.

Thanks :) cry more about it.

r/whoosh

I agree, but the business lobbies who want to make more money because there will be more daylight when people get off work won. Who cares if more kids get hit by cars walking to the bus stop in the dark mornings, right?

I wouldn't be surprised though if this ever actually gets through the senate, that some businesses start adjusting their hours because enough employees complain.

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Kids are already walking to the bus stop in the dark. My HS started at 8 am, but I had to catch the bus at 7:15, which meant standing outside in the pitch dark every single morning.

I think we should go further. The sun should come up later so that I can go on a run/ride with the boys before popping off for a cheeky pint on the way home without feeling sleepy due to darkness at 4:15 PM!

It's actually 10:29AM

uh ok...

Solar noon is almost never at noon. If we were to follow your logic we’d have a different time at every point on earth. Instead we made an approximation that tends to work ok, it’s better than the same time everywhere I think.

In the end which time slot you’re in just barely matters. What matters is that it’s totally ridiculous to shift the slot twice a year. If people want solar noon at 12:45 instead of 11:45 it makes no difference. Permanent DST is nice on the west coast because it puts the whole country on a tighter clock. I think that’s a material benefit that far outweighs the ridiculous argument you’re making about the definition of the word meridian.

Praise the Sun

I agree. I keep reading people saying that a big reason is so the kids don't have to go to school in the dark? Forgive me for not giving a shit about that. I would rather have at least a couple ounces of light after I get home from work...

Keep noon the zenith? You do know that we used to do that before standardized time zones right? Didn't quite work out too good.

Just change the hours we are open? Yeah, real good when you're trying to do business with east coast types. Is it 4 hours or 3 hours or 5 hours difference today? Oh crap, is NJ on DST but NY isn't, what about Indiana again? Not confusing at all.

Why is it so damn hard to just accept DST and all the inconveniences it brings? Clearly the benefits of changing the clocks outweigh a few people being tired for a week or two twice a year.

part of it for school is transportation; the roads are icy & unsafe before the sun is out in the winter

A problem more easily solved by changing school hours than clocks.

The problems you're pretending would exist already do, and would actually be removed if we all stopped changing the clocks. There are lots of places that don't change them, and even more that change them on a different schedule.

I really hope that we aren’t doing DST year round… we should be doing the opposite and keeping standard time year round.

Japan, China and Russia are the only industrialized nations that don't switch clocks. Almost all other nations that don't are tropical so it makes no difference.

It's just another made up first world problem.

You know we understand how it works right? I want afternoon light, not morning light.

That's a nice copy/paste from Google's first hit, but it completely ignores Arizona, Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico... And that's just US. (And there are more) Here's a whole list of countries without DST that your quick Google didn't catch: https://greenwichmeantime.com/countries

None of which had anything to do with the point that we already have mismatches in time change that cause the problems you claim would be caused by not participating.

Lots of northern cities around the world have late sunrises in the winter, and they seem to be doing OK. For today:

Madrid: 8:34am Copenhagen: 8:37am Paris: 8:41am Brussels: 8:42am Stockholm: 8:43am Oslo: 9:17am

Fuck them kids. Who cares about their safety going to school /s

This is the real reason daylight time has stuck around and been extended: people shop more. It’s all about the money

What do the kids in Alaska do? Just stop going to school all winter?

Standard Time is healthier than DST. We need to keep Standard Time. If people want more sunlight, they should move south.

And it would get dark at 5:30 instead of 4:30. Much better IMO.

Sun sets at 4 as well. I work 8-4:30 so I never see the sun during winter anyways, I'd like to see if it still exists at times. I'd be fine with sunrise at 5am during summer, and a sliver of sun in the evening during winter.

> If humans embrace the heavens, instead of thinking we control it, we will reconnect with nature.

You mean like not changing our clocks twice a year and sticking with a consistent, more natural timeframe?

Who wants it getting light out at 3am (and sunrise at 4:15am) in the summer?

So don’t care about this, it’s become routine. I like it.

The thing is the world is not flat. If the sun is straight up in one zone it is 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 pm in another.

Exactly. And those same kids will also want the daylight hours after work when they get older.

Because then the extra daylight is meaningless since you will also have to work later.

Correct and I have no patience for those claiming to be tired. There is no reason to be. You know when it's coming. Plan better.

What's the difference between 7:34 and 8:34 am when I have my blinds closed until my alarm tells me to wake up?

Alaska doesn't count, apparently, especially when people start talking about cancer and daylight savings time as if some places in the world don't get more than 16 hours of sunlight a day.

Right, solar noon fluctuates throughout the year and is only at 12 pm close to the eastern edge of a time zone. We have solar noon at noon in Spokane during half the year, whereas everyone else comes later.

Right, so your point is that if solar noon was on the west side of a time zone it would be a disaster? If you were on the same time as your neighbors in Montana and southern Idaho then all hell would break loose?

No, I was agreeing with your reply. A lot of these "solar noon is 12 pm" people don't seem to understand that, though. It's just weird how if I go to Missoula and gain an hour on the clock but only like 15 minutes of real time with respect to sunset, I'm not suddenly at risk of my heart exploding or any of those other nonsense things that anti-DST people argue.

Sorry, I thought you were OP. Must be a case of late night Reddit syndrome.

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they literally take snowmobiles; you can watch videos of it on youtube

google it if you want the answer, but they take snowmobiles

This might interest you: https://blog.poormansmath.net/images/SolarTimeVsStandardTimeV2.png

As you can see, the west coast is pretty spot on. For now…