Submitted by Ductomaniac t3_10wgrhp in WorcesterMA
Hi, I'll be moving to central MA in a few months. I have two kids recently diagnosed with ASD and wanted to know if anyone has had experience with Autistic children and the school systems. Do they provide adequate support and accomodations in the public schools? Are there neighboring towns you might recommend over Worcester? Appreciate any insights, thank you.
shit that's awful. when was this? i am a product of the late 80s-90s wps and there were teachers that were indefensibly rotten to some of the kids for a variety of shitty reasons.
i always looked back on that as a "different time" where those things just happened. i would really hate to think that stuff still goes on like that. it's very damaging and traumatizing. sorry you went through that.
Teachers, sometimes, can be the worst bullies.
I have an autistic son at Worcester Tech. It has changed thankfully. The school has been very supportive especially during those awful covid times.
He did not go to elementary or middle school here. He had an out of district placement. So I can not say if it has gotten better on that level.
Oh man that is messed up. I hope Worcester has gotten better.
Mom threatened to sue my high school sophomore year for violating the ADA, it got that bad
Worse.
It has gotten worse.
Hahaha no.
Please do not enroll your kids in Worcester public schools if they have asd, they are unlikely to be well served.
Also please do not use anything "ABA" related, it's seriously outdated and generally condemned by the autism community.
Steer clear of any with a puzzle piece logo or public association with "Autism Speaks" as they are literally a hate group focused on elimination of autistic people and provide almost no actual support to real autists.
You SHOULD get connected with the Autism Self-Advocacy Network (ASAN), and look into homeschooling resources for autistic learners and educate yourself on asynchronous development.
The modern age has become a much better place for autistic people, because various forms of technology have provided ways for people to connect and interact that were totally impossible before. Get connected with the Autism community itself - you'll find the best people and support there, not in "the system".
For homeschooling resources, are you saying you think we should homeschool our children if possible? We have connected with a few autistic communities (none of them Worcester based though), all of them advising strongly against ABA.
I think that is likely going to be part of most families' solutions fit healthy autistic kids.
Even if you do find a good school program for them among the alternative schools in the area (which keep changing, so i don't have any specific recommendations this time), you and your kids will need to take charge of their education much more directly, and homecoming resources can really help.
Scouting, college programs from young people (MIT's SPLASH used to be a core for many kids, not sure about now), martial arts programs, museum programs, maker programs can all be used to collect a custom education for the specific needs of your kids without involving the traditional school system and its problems.
In my humble opinion, and I have a good amount of experience with this, your advice is misguided at best and probably more accurately described as potentially harmful.
My advice comes from both personal experience, a degree in psychology, and the weight of literally every single autistic adult i know, which is many.
Please don’t listen to this person, ABA is strongly researched and validated to be the best treatment for behavioral excesses and deficits. This person likely had a bad experience or worse “did their own research” and validated their own bias.
But look into the Shrewsbury school system, they have a very strong aba/autism program.
Also home schooling would be absolutely the worst. Immersion into the community is paramount... For the person with ASD and their peers.
Had they included students with disabilities while I were in school I would be 10000 times better prepared to be a parent of a child with ASD and likely would have also lived a more enlightened and fulfilling life knowing people with disabilities are not a personal problem... It's a societal problem.
Awareness, acceptance and accountability on both sides (ND/NT) is needed and inclusion is the only way.
Home school.... Sweet lord.... Please do not do that to your child.
Yeah their comments come off as someone who could not/would not follow the guidance as prescribed and then found “functional” alternatives to behavioral training. And saying they just let their kid be is a long winded way of saying they gave up.
That said, it is not easy to be a parent to kids with ASD/DDs and very difficult to change the coping strategies they developed to get by before they made it through the wait list to achieving services. Looks like a classic extinction burst
My experience as a parent has been a privilege, I cannot speak for all or relate to many others on the subject.
It's concerning the opinions regarding ABA.
The practitioners should be operating within the parameters developed by the parents.
I certainly believe there are more parents out there concerned with the "symptoms" of ASD and many parents refuse to get a better understanding of how to modify their life/perspective and opinions to generate inclusion for their child.
Sure, many, if not most parents do as they're told in the treatment of their children... But if the therapies are being considered abusive, then I think the fault lies on the parameters that were defined and not the therapy.
As for ABA being the gold standard... Well, it's not of the same quality for gold standards as say Volvo is for safety... But it's a start. I mean, come-on, we used to drill holes in our skulls for the most ridiculous things...
So yeah, there's definitely room for improvement, as there is for all things. But improvement won't come if no one participates.
And I have less faith in people being parents than I do the scientific process...
So the abuse assigned to ABA I say is the result of parents trying to reshape their child, vs parents utilizing ABA to help their child develop skills needed to survive in a world the quite frankly does not give a shit about them, or anyone who doesn't have a voice that can be heard above the nonsense of humanity.
Whenever you see a result of the scientific process being abusive, racist or discriminatory... Was it the process or the practitioner?
Just my 2 cents.
Nah this is a pretty standard feeling among adults with autism as well as those of us who’ve experienced ABA with our kids. What autistic kids need isn’t to be trained out of their autism but rather to have a program that actually works with them and their neurodivergence. Models like floor time are significantly more in line with more modern research that’s not looking to erase or cure autism, as it’s not something that can be cured.
Which isn’t to say that I think homeschooling is necessary, but ABA is useless at best and abusive at worst.
What is the replacement for ABA?
There is no replacement for ABA. We rejected ABA based on input for autistic adults. My son had speech and occupational therapy. Other than that we just let him be his authentic self.
In theory, that’s awesome and I agree. In practice, in the classroom, ABA is integral to learning for those with moderate to severe autism.
Not a fan of labeling. Autistic is autistic. My son is doing just fine without any ABA since he left public schools in first grade. The school he transferred to did not use it.
Yea, why use language to show the degrees of a spectrum?
That’s not how the autism spectrum works. It’s not more or less autistic, and those within the autism community prefer to talk about high versus low needs as a reflection not of a person being super duper or a little autistic but rather of what they actually need.
And yes, the language matters, at it focuses on what the autistic person needs, not how inconvenient they are to the people around them.
There is no replacement because it's an unnecessary goal altogether, aside from the trauma that ABA practices can cause in the process of achieving that goal.
While it's true that autistic people often need help understanding allistic behaviors, practicing social skills overall, and other kinds of coping skills to survive in a world that doesn't understand them/us... The biggest problem is actually in society.
OTHER PEOPLE need to learn how to function with autistic differences, rather than trying to force autistic people to behave like allistic people merely for their comfort.
Okay, so students with autism should only get social skills and coping skills during school? Because if we want them to get academics, we need ABA or something to replace it.
…yeah neither of my autistic kids have needed ABA or anything like it to develop social skills outside of school and neither have I. And before you say “hem hem you must be MILD,” both of my boys are considered moderate needs. Both of them have speech and occupational therapy to help them adjust to a neurotypical world, and beyond that, they have accommodations in their classrooms to help them with their sensory needs and other areas that can’t be helped with therapy. We opted out of ABA for both of them; the ABA we DID get for my younger son before he started public school was roughly useless.
ABA by definition is about behavior, not social skills or coping skills. It’s about training autistic kids to act less autistic, which can be absurdly traumatic. I understand you’re drawing on your experience as a special Ed teacher, but in ignoring the experiences and opinions of autistic adults and autistic kids, you’re coming across as the kind of teacher I’d want to stay at least a thousand miles away from my kids.
Username checks out...
I'm trying not to get mad at you, but it's not going well.
I understand that you are a product of the system and are having trouble seeing past the paradigm you're used to. But you need to read my previous comment again, and take some time to think about it.
I can guarantee you’ve never taught special education. If we want students to fail in the real world that IN NO WAY will magically change to know “how to function with autistic differences,” then we can do it your way. We can’t even see people of color as equals in this society. Cmon now, be realistic.
I can guarantee that you're the kind of special education teacher that made my life and many of my autistic friends' lives horrible.
I would also say that you are obviously on the mild side of the spectrum for autism. You may not have needed ABA and it’s unfair when all students with autism are shoved into one classroom. I do things differently. It’s also apparent that, if your lives were horrible, then ABA was not used correctly. The focus is positive reinforcement. Many teachers are so used to using negative reinforcement that the switch is hard. But again, ABA used in the way it’s supposed to be is immensely helpful.
We all have bad teachers, I get it. That doesn’t mean we need to get rid of something that helps the majority.
Please please please start listening to actual autistic adults (and kids, for that matter).
The overwhelming majority of the community condemns most special education programs, and especially and ABA as fundamentally abusive, and mostly pointless. Most autistic adults, including myself, have spent years undoing what they were "taught" in social ed programs in order to become both more healthy and more able.
Your chip on your shoulder stemming from your own personal bad experiences is clouding your judgement and making you a liability to those in the autistic community looking for guidance. Your bias is a serious problem that could be potentially harmful to those in need.
I learned this viewpoint FROM autistic people other than myself.
My parents did a different wrong thing - they "mainstreamed" me with zero supports and didn't even tell me about my own (bad) diagnosis. I've been trying to catch up my whole life.
You said it yourself. You had a bad experience because you were not exposed to the best supports, and you had an extenuating situation of your own family basically sabotaging you. Don't get me wrong.. the issue here is way beyond you yourself.. I'm not saying you're somehow damaged goods.. but the advice you give is very jaded and is over-compensating sharply in what is now generally considered the wrong direction. Is every program great? No, of course not. But telling someone to shun all of the orgs out there and just go with homeschooling and social isolation and hope that society as a whole suddenly just changes direction to accommodate those with ASD is incredibly short sighted. It's a two way street. Society DOES need to better accommodate ASD and actually all types of differences in general.. but those with ASD should also be assisted to better acclimate to the society in which we all live.
You're acting like I'm a lone wolf on this topic, which means you haven't been listening to actual autistics. Including right here on this thread, because I'm not the only one.
You're deeply in the minority. It's really not even close. You're too jaded to see the big picture.
You're too bound up in your personal worldview to that it's not the only one.
Wachuset district and Shrewsbury MA is good. Also Grafton, I spoke with the town representatives back in 2014 for a project and Grafton spends more money per child than other districts.
I am also interested for my grandchild. I think the Worcester schools are overburdened but I specifically don't know about autism or any of their programs. I noticed there are a lot of ABA-based treatment programs around, but they seem kind of old school and not based on the current thinking about neurodiversity. They seem more into treating autism as a disease to be cured which is not what our family is interested in. I would love to hear what others think and also wonder what support groups are available for families. We recently relocated here from the Boston area and I can say that Central Mass is definitely behind on most everything that you would find in Boston.
Yes, we want to avoid ABA! Everything around worcester seems super ABA focused. 😓 What did you like in Boston?
Shrewsbury ABA focused as well.
Our little one was just an infant while we were in Boston.
Hi there.. I have a close friend who is one of the top autism needs professionals in the state. She's not a redditor so I ran your post by her and here was her answer:
"I recommend Auburn, which is next to Worcester. They have an integrated and specialized special needs program within the school, as well as through their after school and extra curricular activities. I recommend then pursuing a family advocate to assist with this process and also to get in touch with the local department of developmental services, as there are family support programs there. Another good resource is the Autism Alliance" (which is an affiliate of the very large autism support program she runs).
She also says that if you'd like to reach out to her directly, she'd be happy to discuss your options with you. Send me a DM and I can give you her email address.
Good luck!
Worcester is very behind in general curriculum so for ASD accommodations or any learning disabilities I would recommended looking in to surrounding districts
There is a private school in Worcester which is for students with autism. I forget the name but you can Google.
Also check into Massachusetts Rehabilitation Coalition. They can help with placement suggestions.
I'm not surprised by any of the answers here, but things are improving, our new Superintendent is really pushing fixing this issue.
There were some big updates/info dump on Feb 4th's school committee meeting (see u/TracyNovick 's blog here: https://who-cester.blogspot.com/2023/02/what-happened-at-first-february.html ) and they are hiring a bunch more paraprofessionals and mental health workers. We definitely have a ways to go but it does seem like things might go decently well in the not too distant future.
The new superintendent is certainly talking the talk. I REALLY hope the school committee supports her so the district can make the improvements parents and educators are clamoring for.
OP - I have a kid in WPS. He has ADHD and has friends who are autistic. If you choose WPS you will get plenty of services IF you are a good advocate and you choose the right school (some are better than others). Lining up a solid treatment team goes a long way to getting the right services and accommodations. And I would recommend that for any district. I have friends in Newton, one of the best districts for SpEd services, who still had to fight for what their autistic kid needed.
An example of WPS progress - Flagg St added a classroom this year that accommodates high needs K and 1st graders, they installed a fence around the playground to minimize elopement risks, and they brought in several paras and a couple teachers specifically for that room.
But WPS still has a lot of room for improvement in general. So hopefully Dr. Monarrez is able to effect some positive changes.
Have you ever engaged with the supposedly exists (but I can't seem to get in touch with them) Special Education Parent Teacher Association (SEPTA) that we federally are legally required to have?
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Hi! I just want to say that I worked as a ABA technician for 2 years and wanted to share my perspective. My advice to parents is to do it, but with skepticism and be highly engaged in the process. I had 3 clients in the area and have extremely strong relationships with all the kids and every member of the child’s family. Though I have left the field to pursue other interests, I still regularly babysit for these families and believe I had a very positive influence providing compassionate support, modeling appropriate behaviors, and establishing routines and consistency in these kids lives. I think a lot depends on whether the individual working with your kid is a “good fit” and has complimentary qualifications. Parents can advocate for what they need and have more control in this area than they often realize! You can actively work with the BCBAs to find that right fit and get a different one if it’s not working out. I would think of it as similar to finding the right therapist :)
I would also advice going to smaller practices, as they handle fewer cases and are able to provide each client more individualized attention from BCBAs, who are often over stretched at large centers.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best!! 😊
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If anyone would like to reach out to me I work for an ABA organization in Worcester and we are one of the few that works very closely with the WPS so if anyone is interested in more information feel free to reply here or send me a PM!!!
I’m looking for a public school district that is more progressive (not sure if that is the right word). I mean more affirming of neurodiversity, less focused on behaving “normal.” This is for a high-function 4 year old with ASD. Anything you would recommend? I’m looking especially at Worcester, shrewsbury, and westborough. Thanks!
Westborough has a good program for students with severe disabilities, but in my experience don't believe "smart kids" would ever need accommodations.
Going in with a diagnosis may help, the stuff I struggled with was a bit more nebulous. My mom had to fight them on every front for testing, and even with my results they didn't accommodate me until my senior year. I was making "adequate progress". They made her find the exact legal wording that forced them to test me in high school, and told me if I disputed any of the subjective "observations" they wouldn't have time to put my 504 through before college applications (when at that point I just wanted to show that I did all I had while struggling with a disability they refused to accommodate).
I can't say whether they'd work for your kid, but they didn't do well with me. Kids who are the "right" type of smart can flourish there, and most of the other students meander down the path to graduation without major issues. Bullying happens, but for every terrible teacher there was a great one, they have a lot of opportunities for kids to explore their interests, parents have a lot of opportunity to help out in the elementary schools should they so choose, and it's well funded. I'm not saying steer clear by any means, it's overall pretty good. They have their failings, and this was one of them. Take this anecdote and make your own decision.
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Commenting because I may be in the same boat in a year or two…
Westborough has great schools.
No public school is good, I have asd and the best option is home school
Respectfully, I have asd and was homeschooled and it was extremely traumatizing. I don’t recommend homeschool, especially for autistic kids.
That was your experience and I'm sorry that happened to you but if parents are good and loving it will be good for them
The same can be said for public school. 🤷🏻♀️ At least there kids can get out of the house and experience living socially. At least at school there are mandated reporters.
Yeah but I'm happy the way I am even be it little social experience
meltyourtv t1_j7nmavk wrote
I went to the “best” elementary school, “best” middle school, and “best” high school in Worcester with learning disabilities. Almost all my teachers growing up would not accommodate my 504, mock me, call me stupid, etc. I pray times have changed but stay away from WPS, my experience was a nightmare and I have no idea how I made it out alive