Submitted by New-Vegetable-1274 t3_zp75i0 in WorcesterMA
My daughter has a small 1 bed apartment with electric heat. She just got a $400 dollar bill. She keeps the heat on 68. Does this seem high? I don't have electric heat but I do have central air which I run all summer and my electric is around $200 and I have a large house.
Yeah, but $ 400 seems more than just a little high.
So does keeping your heat at 68
I think that’s it, especially if it’s in like that all day. If she’s in an apartment anything like mine the heat from the neighbors on all sides seeps in. 2 bed mill style with poor insulation but keeps my apartment at 65 without having to turn my heat on. If my heats on at 68 for a full month my bill would be around 4-500.
Check to make sure she didn’t accidentally sign up for renewable sourced energy, they quote me 2x+ for the same service as well
I'm surprised their bill wasn't higher. They should be happy to have such good insulation.
It really depends on the unit / construction. Our 2nd floor apartment is 1000sqft with natural gas heat, newer construction, newer windows, energy efficient appliances, etc. We literally leave the thermostat at 72 all year round. Never had a bill over $200 in summer or winter. We stay quite insulated.
Our previous place was on the top-floor of creaky triple-decker with old-ass appliances, drafty windows, etc. It was a downright struggle to keep it at 68. It seemed like the heat would blast non-stop and it was still cold.
Doesn't seem that high considering they have been warning everyone of huge rate increases for over a year now. I have gas heat but have an electric window AC, my power bill for a month averaged $300 over the summer(which is about double what I paid previous summers). I am in a studio apartment too.
Also how old is the electric heater? ... They eat power worse than an AC unit does, especially if they are on the older side... Hopefully it isn't a wall unit, even brand new those things are terribly inefficient.
But why? Why is our bills double. Wtf does a war with Ukraine have to do with natural gas produced electric in New England. Absolutely nothing. Don’t accept the bullshit.
In my experience, $400 for electric heat is lower than average via current rates
Can she program the thermostat to go to 62 when she’s asleep or out?
That sounds a bit drastic, 65 maybe.
Conventional electric heat in MA is almost always more expensive than gas or oil (not including electric heat pumps which are more efficient). It makes sense that it would be even worse this year with the enormous rate hikes.
I don’t think I’ve ever turned my heat above 60 at night. She’ll be fine. A down comforter, a programmable thermostat and being open to chilly nighttime bathroom trips could save her some money.
The recommended efficiency cycle for when you're asleep or away is 8-10 degrees lower than your normal comfort level. For my house, I have the waking temperature set to 68 degrees, but I have it programmed to be at 60 when we're asleep or at work. There's no point heating the house fully if we're not there, or not noticing it because we're asleep.
If she has it set to a static 68 degrees, then that electric bill seems normal.
Lol, mine's on 61 all the time (60 just seemed to drastic)
Frankly I'm shocked at what people seemed to forced to do in terms of comfort in their homes. Your home is your refuge and the one place you should be absolutely comfortable in. Not long ago the default winter comfort zone in American states with cold temps was 68 - 70. Every household customized their settings according to what they could afford. You might have experienced a cold house when you got up in the morning or when you came home from work but not every waking hour. It seems odd to me that this has become the norm. Incrementally our economy is being destroyed and it seems like young people are like the frog in the pot. Today's "middle class" is inching it's way downward toward poverty and the distinctions are beginning to blur. Given current wages and the struggle to live on them doesn't it occur to anyone that the cost of living will eventually outpace income? How many people are already having to make tough choices? I can assure you no one in Washington DC is. This isn't a Democrat or a Republican thing it's something truly sinister. D&R are two sides of the same coin and don't give a rat's ass about America. I'm nearing the finish line and not really affected by any of this but I care deeply about the America I leave behind. America's youth deserve better and can only fix this by rejecting everything coming out of Washington. Tear it down and start over. The average age of both houses is 61 but many are in their 70s and 80s and frankly, dead wood. They are the problem.
Dude I'm 30, just bought my first house, and I keep it at 60 24/7. To save money you need to sacrifice some stuff. This has been the norm, and it will always be the norm. Dad always kept the house at 60, his dad would get pissed if someone kept the front door open for too long in the winter.
Your daughter needs to be okay wearing sweatpants and a hoodie, maybe get a throw blanket for when she's on the couch. If you want to wear shorts and t-shirt at home in the winter, you need to accept you'll be paying more for heating.
Do we pay too much? Yes, obviously but that doesn't change the fact that turning the heat down will save you money.
I value comfort over money and I'm pushing 70. 60 at this age is cold no matter how many layers you're wearing. I grew up during a time when the cost of things were more in line with what people could afford. I guess I'm a little shell shocked with what the cost of living is. People aren't even living paycheck to paycheck, for some it mean always trying to catch up. I know it is what it is but people are becoming inured to it and settling. In my work life overtime was bonus money not a necessity. When I was young and chasing it, 60 to 70 hour weeks was gravy. Take home pays were 4 or 5 hundred and all the OT went in the bank. When I was a little older and got married my wife and I put each other through college and our total college debt was $20,000 and they gave us ten years to pay it off. Since then we raised a family, have owned several homes and are comfortably retired. We couldn't do any of that now if we were just starting out. There's something really wrong with that. What's happening to America's economy is artificial and getting worse. I think 20 somethings and 30 somethings deserve better. You are the ones that can change this by changing Washington.
I mean....sure. but theres what "should be" and what IS. At the end of the day, none of this changes the fact that heat is expensive. No short cut to saving money aside from wearing a few extra layers of clothing (and winterizing). I will survive it a bit cooler.
Lol, wasn't it your generation who told me, "just put on a sweatshirt!!!"
Changing DC could make everything better, what's happening now is 100% political BS. America deserves better. It wasn't my generation it was our depression era parent's. Sadly we are very close to another economic collapse like the depression.
Some discussion of day/night temp settings here - some are extreme, this thread at least got me switching to 60 at night. Totally reasonable, especially if you can set the thermostat to increase to 65-68 an hour or so before getting up: https://www.reddit.com/r/massachusetts/comments/yy6al6/alright_its_cold_now_what_temperature_is_your/
Electric heat is really expensive. My house is all radiator heat/gas except my bedroom, which ran on electric heat before I installed mini splits. I kept it at 55 and my electric bill still skyrocketed in the winter. I can’t imagine with the rate hikes now what folks with electric heat are going to pay.
Enrolling in the Mass Power Choice electric option someone mentions here will help a little. If she’s not already turning it down when she leaves and sleeps, she should start doing that. Electric heat sucks, unfortunately
Just got a $1000 electric bill with all electric heat in a 700sq ft cottage outside the Woo :)
Holy shit
That sounds right for electric heat. If anything, it sounds low with nat grids new rates. My last apt was a 1 bdrm with electric heat and at last year’s nat grid rate my monthly bills were still around $400.
I believe he likes to be called Electric William.
That is a little high, but if the insulation or windows aren't great it wouldn't surprise me. Did she winterize? Plastic on the windows may work wonders.
Electric heat often costs more than AC. In the winter the heater has to raise the temp by 30+ degrees, but the AC only has to drop it by 10-15 for most of the summer.
It doesnt seem high for electric heat+ .33 cents/kwh rate
Yes, That makes sense about the AC and I think you might be right about the windows and insulation. This apartment complex is not luxury apartments but pretty nice but who knows maybe corners were cut some where.
Worcester county not Worcester, but my first house in 2012 was 875sqft and had electric heat and our NG bills were consistently $450-600 in the winter. Our mortgage was $575…
That reminds me of my first house. It was around the same sq footage but a barn in the winter. We rented it first and bought it and the first year, we lived in a camper in the yard while a I stripped the whole house to the studs. It was the beginning of a nightmare, it was built with odds and ends of construction debris. Random studding, some studs married pieces, no insulation, and odd lengths of Romex spliced and wrapped in electrical tape for wiring. The electric service was 60 amps and fuses. Only the roof framing was done right. Fortunately all of my friends are in the trades and we have always helped each other out. It was a lot of work but it didn't cost a lot and I made money on it when I sold it. This is why there's codes and inspections.
my bf lives in a 4bd in main south and his was also $400, it tripled in cost
also important: he lives in a triple decker lol
That's at least six rooms she has half that and the rooms are small.
An Air Conditioner has a COP (coefficient of performance) of 4 while electric heat is 1. Which means you can move 4 units of air-conditioning with the same electric use as moving only 1 unit of heat. So already AC is more efficient, add to that AC is lowering the temp usually no more than 10 degrees, and heat is routinely 40 degrees, you are talking around 8 times the daily AC use for heat.
I'd certainly lower that thermostat and bundle up.
Also, as others have mentioned, getting a third party electric supplier is good, and you have to be on top of the rate - I like Inspire or Ambit as they don't have cancellation fees. It's predicted next winter will be much much worse electric rates than this winter, since MA is dependent on natural gas from Europe (and thus Russia) for our electricity production.
electric heat is expensive. had it in gardner 20 years ago and it was over 400 a month. that was a townhouse. keep that tstat to 58. 68 is way too warm. especially seeing how it hasnt been that cold yet. wait til jan/feb. it will be about 600 a month.
My last bill was doubled from the month before. National Grid had a 64% increase in their rates today
I would have national grid check the meter and make sure it’s not charging her for an additional shared space or something. 400 seems high to me for a 1br. That being said, 68 at all times sounds excessive. I turn my heat to 60 and leave for the day. Turn it to 60ish at night. I’ll “blast” it to 68ish when I’m in the living room or just around. In my opinion leaving the heat at 68 around the clock sounds incredibly wasteful but luckily it will be an easy bill to reduce. Turn it down when you leave and before bed. Curtains open towards the sun during daylight and closed away from the sun or at night. Weather stripping/door sweep to windows and entrances. A couple throw blankets on the couch. Comfy sweatpants and long sleeves. She could very easily reduce the bill by 30% with minimal if any sacrifice.
Reading other comments I’m also seeing she doesn’t actually live in Worcester which makes a little more sense. Worcester has some sort of deal and it’s a little cheaper in the city. 400 makes more sense knowing it’s outside of the city.
I kept my heat on 60° and had bills over $400 each month of the winter. She’s lucky it’s so low for keeping it on 68°
Try keeping it at 67
I could only dream of keeping my house at 68. Everything is set for 58, and I turn it up to 62 when I know I'm going to be home for a while. But for the most hours of the day 58 is the normal temp.
68°? Set it to 60° and put a sweater on.
Does she live in Worcester proper? If so she should make sure she is enrolled in the cheaper city brokered electric rates, it’s supposed to be automatic. https://www.masspowerchoice.com/worcester
If she is in one of the surrounding towns, she should shop around for a the cheapest electricity provider: https://energyswitchma.gov
In both cases National Grid is still delivering and billing the power, this just effects the supplier.
No she is in Hampden county but thanks for the links.
What town in Hampden County? I’m assuming more eastward to Worcester (Brimfield, Holland, Palmer maybe?) since you’re posting here. I grew up in that area and can probably look into the utility rates there if need be.
Palmer
Energy costs are the only thing I am really getting a head on since I moved down south…. Everything else “balances out” cost wise because I get paid less.
Interesting, I wonder about this sometimes. Where in the south did you move, if you don’t mind me asking?
Sign up for LIHEAP. I have a studio apartment and my heating bill was 300. Electric baseboard heaters, have insulated windows, the windows are winterized and I try to use the heat only at night.
Depends a lot on the apartment. I lived in an older place in Watertown with electric heat. I was only there for one year because the cost of heating it in the winter was absolutely gut wrenching (400+ a month).
Can you do anything in terms of sealing windows? Or those mats under doors to help keep heat from escaping?
Plastic insulation on the windows cut my electric bill by 40% when I lived in the city.
Doesn't solve the high cost, but at least spreads it out more evenly throughout the year: https://www.nationalgridus.com/MA-Home/Bill-Help/Budget-Billing
Also recommend an efficient space heater (look into ones with an infrared option), then keep the main heat low and only heat the room she is currently using with the space heater.
That’s awfully hi for a 1 bedroom apt with electric heat. My bill last few months have been in the $30’s, $40’s thus far. I work hybrid at home 2 days. Something’s wrong with this picture!
My apologies! My heat is included, so I’m blessed for that. I meant my regular electric bill…sorry!
Wow, thank you all for your responses. I retired about the time people started hunkering down because of covid. We pretty much self quarantined with the exception of medical appointments and bi weekly grocery shopping. Since things eased up we've still stuck pretty close to home and the only increases I've noticed is gas and food. We have a seasonal contract for heating and lock in sometime between summer and fall. We heat with propane and have a really efficient hybrid system. We pay per delivery so it's not monthly but I'd be really surprised if it came to $400 a month and we have a large house. Between what I read here on Reddit about Worcester rents and energy bills sometimes it feels like I'm climbing out of a bunker in some post apocalyptic future. We're seniors and keep the house around 70 during the day and 68 at night. We live in the sticks so it's always a little bit colder here. Anyway maybe our daughter's electric bill is that high but her apartment is really small. We're going to keep checking out the situation until it's resolved one way or the other. Thanks again everyone.
How would you prefer it to be resolved? Have her pay the bill and move on. $400 for a month of heat at 68° is about right if not super cheap. Try keeping it at 60° if she wants to keep it around $200. This post was incredibly unnecessary and pointless, nothing sketchy is going on chill out
A humidifier will make her apt feel warmer, electric heat is very dry.
Yes that seems ridiculous actually
That probably about right. Remember the govt want everyone conserving energy and to gouge you while you do it. And don’t forget either you charge the car or heat your apt but ya can’t do both!
That seems exceptionally high for a small apartment kept at 68.
How long has she lived there? Can she check with the utility for the history of the KWh used monthly for the past couple years? My national grid bill shows the past 12 months I believe.
It really doesnt seem exceptionally high for electric heat
Yeah that's what we told her but she called the utility company and they said the bill is correct. She's in an apartment complex and all of the units are the same, we told her to check with her neighbors and the complex management.
I’m a property manager and we can’t really help with electric bills any more than we could a cell phone bill. For keeping the apartment at 68 and for the huge rate increase, that bill doesn’t seem so crazy to me- but if she lived on my property, I’d suggest she call National Grid and have them check her meter to make sure all is in order and check her bill to make sure it was an a actual read and not an estimated read. Good luck!
Thanks
> we told her to check with her neighbors and the complex management
Excellent advice, was going to suggest the same. This will give her the best insight as to if it's normal or out of whack.
So the bill may be "correct", insofar as the meter reading was accurate (let's assume it was), but there may be other things happening here. If it were me, I'd want to ensure that the trend over time is consistent--so, did the apartment in the winter months last year and the year prior have similar bills? If it did, then we know that nothing is suddenly awry here and it may be a matter of drafts, leaks, windows, doors, etc. needing some sealing/insulation attention.
If the $400 just doesn't line up though, you should put on the detective hat and start investigating and eliminating possibilities. Is a neighbor using her electricity (either intentionally or not--like recent electrical work and a circuit was wired wrong and is pulling from her apt's meter but feeding another apt.)?
Is something else jacking the usage up? Space heater? Significantly higher usage of an appliance like the oven or dryer? The fridge old and constantly running?
Yeah, it's a mystery for sure. I'm an old Worcester kid who grew up in three deckers in main south and we had some shady neighbors who would jump gas and electric meters. That's what this feels like to me and the first thing I thought of when she told me.
She's not at the grid, is she? I didn't spend a single day in my apartment over the summer, and the electricity was off and still got a 60 dollar electric bill.
No, I think it might be something like there's something shady going on or outdoor lighting is be charged to her. There was a major reno there before she moved in and something might have gone amok who knows.
OpenBookExam t1_j0r5q8w wrote
NatGrid almost doubled what they charged for kWh. My bill doubled from 70 to 140 in my small 1br. Merry f'n Christmas, right?