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salimeero t1_jdig5e2 wrote

Reply to comment by TheHumanPickleRick in [WP] Gandalf and Dumbledore switch places. Gandalf is now running Hogwarts, while Dumbledore is leading The Fellowship. by yax51

You're not thinking back far enough.

"Oh no! Some dark lord named Sauron is amassing a lot of orcs and dark magic!"

#POP

clears throat ...whispers... Avada Kadavra.

#POP

"Not anymore."

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SpoiledAzura t1_jdilaif wrote

Huh, would the ring count as a horcrux?

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NextEstablishment856 t1_jdizquh wrote

It's pretty well the same thing with extra steps. Sauron poured all his hate and malice into it, and it kept him from being fully destroyed. Terms and process are a bit different, but the result is the same.

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Nevadajack87 t1_jdjkb8n wrote

If he poured all his hate and malice into it wouldn’t he be absent those emotions? Without the ring maybe he’s a good dude?

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NextEstablishment856 t1_jdjmgka wrote

Maybe when Isildur chopped off his hand, he was like, "Whoa, thanks man! I was really having a bad—" but then he got stabbed, so all that was left was what was saved with the ring. The ring was originally supposed to be, like, really good therapy.

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TheBigOrange27 t1_jdim3is wrote

I feel like it's pretty similar, though seemed more likely to create new dark lords from corruption rather than resurrect Sauron.

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Burnsidhe t1_jdivyv1 wrote

It is in fact a horcrux in HP terms. Sauron died, all that was left behind was the One Ring, which was forged with a piece of Sauron's essence. Because his spirit was anchored to the One Ring, Sauron was able to slowly reconstitute himself over centuries until re-emerging in Mirkwood, then being driven out of Mirkwood and returning to Mordor.

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jointheclockwork t1_jdl9tnb wrote

It's all in the same vein of a magical knick knack that keeps the bad guy alive like a lich's phylactery or Koschei the Deathless's needle.

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jaorocha t1_jdjrbg6 wrote

The thing is "magic" in The lord of the rings universe is really limited, and finite. Sauron, gandalf and saruman were higher life forms(maiar) and couldnt do things at will.

Saruman was completetely powerless by the end of the return of the king because he spent all his "magic".

As soon as the "new gandalf" have Access tô unlimited magic you either have sauron and saruman being granted the same prínciple, or the story becomes completely Dull because there wouldnt be a conflict.

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UndeadPhysco t1_jdke3wp wrote

> Saruman was completetely powerless by the end of the return of the king because he spent all his "magic".

I thought Saruman was powerless because upon his return Gandalf essentially "outranked" Saruman and subsequently stripped Saruman of his status and power?

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jaorocha t1_jdkmwrg wrote

Gandalf out ranking and breaking his staff is more of a narrative tool tô help us understand his "upgrade" after being reincarnated on a stronger body.

Saruman, much like sauron and morgoth, put his essence into The things he created. Most notable The uruk-hai, but also his own version of a ring of power. They couldnt tap into a infinite power source like most magic users usually do.

As an example: morgoth, as melkor, was The strongest Vala - valar were "gods" that ruled under eru, The all powerful God of middle earth. Melkor was constantly jealous of Eru creations and ever since The beggining he tried doing his own. His power wasnt enough tô create things per se, so he corrupted,reshaped. This made him weaker as The time went by, because his essence was embbed into his work..

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mrzinke t1_jdl44do wrote

Gandalf's magic (and all the other magic users) is different in LotR than other worlds. They actually create new laws of reality/reshape reality with their statements, because they tap into a tiny portion of Eru Iluvatar's power of creation. They can't create whole worlds/continents like Eru could, but they can shape reality still.

When Gandalf tells the Balrog 'You shall not pass', he's making it a fundamental truth that the Balrog will not pass that spot on the bridge. Now, the Balrog has a similar level of power and could find workarounds, but it would not involve just passing where Gandalf stood.

In this context, this is what he says to Sarumen in the books:
'Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no color now, and I cast you from your order and from the Council.'
He raised his hand, and spoke in a clear cold voice. 'Saruman, your staff is broken.'

He doesn't cast a spell, he speaks and it becomes true. He just says his staff is broken, and it breaks. He says Saruman has no color (power) and he no longer does, because, yes.. he totally outranks Saruman now because he just cast Saruman out of the Wizards completely.
And this is the LIMITED amount of their power they are allowed to use on Middle-Earth.

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CremasterReflex t1_jdkpsmd wrote

Well I’m not very confident that take is supported by the silmarillion….

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