bad_take_ t1_iu45uuk wrote
Reply to comment by I_raped_a_wizard in Is it possible that only 4 moose imported to Newfoundland in 1904 could produce a viable modern population of 110,000 today? by SlipCritical9595
There is a lot that should still be considered including the effects of limited genetic diversity. This also does not take into account: if this is the appropriate environment for moose, the prevalence of natural predators, the prevalence of disease, how much food is available, human hunters and if the French have decided to wear Moose skin coats or not. Use the math above with caution.
I_raped_a_wizard t1_iu46b9g wrote
Sure, there are countless factors. I was just under the impression that a population of 4 would be wholly insufficient to continue a species.
I’m uneducated on the topic, just asking questions.
Alis451 t1_iu4ot73 wrote
> continue a species.
does not mean without defects, you can definitely continue a species(with defects) for a very long time. Though with proper genetic testing and mating protocol you can restart a human population from just 2 people, but it would take something like 19 generations to provide enough genetic diversity to become strangers again.
The quoted 50 population required is the "safe" number where you don't have to do a lot of genetic testing, nor would you be required to sire ~20ish children per generation.
I_raped_a_wizard t1_iu4qp19 wrote
Oh okay so you could technically repopulate with just two humans if you were to follow certain protocols?
I didn’t know that was possible. Do you know what exactly you would have to do to achieve that diversity again?
HungryHungryHobo2 t1_iu5cxxf wrote
Do you have a source for the "2 people can recreate the population" claim?
Because I've always seen the low range of estimates for human survival saying we need about 5,000 - 10,000 people to have enough genetic diversity to not die out from inbreeding related illnesses.
Alis451 t1_iu5nqqc wrote
50 is the bare minimum to prevent inbreeding related genetic depression naturally. With new genetic technologies and extensive breeding program you can do it with 2, there are MANY thought examples out there where they talk about how bad it would be to try to do this naturally, this video does discuss using genetic mapping to prevent mismatches, there are a few that discuss it being possible naturally but requiring tens or hundreds of thousands of years to work out.
Interstellar used this thought experiment, though instead with 1 women and 5,000 frozen embryos, with strict genetic selection as well, i think to ensure only daughters were born for the first few generations.
Basically a lot of stuff to dig through that just talks about dangers, but not many that actually discuss the actual possibility, and with modern gene editing, the answer is "yes, but..." and depends on the access one would have to said technology. I think I saw somewhere strict genetic control and breeding control for 19 generations(~400 years) to get suitable genetic drift to be strangers again, of which you could get 50 from that would be able to satisfy the bare minimum of stable natural population.
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