Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

ruesselmann t1_iv4u3e8 wrote

Reply to comment by cloudwalker0909 in Has PTSD due to trauma and/or violence affected humans for centuries or is this a more recent phenomenon? Have there always been long-term effects when an individual experiences trauma and/or violence? by shooflydont

This would explain the evolutionary usefulness of the hypervigilance part, but not the intrusive thinking (nightmares, flashbacks, etc) that are signs of ptsd. Also, there is a tendency to show an overgeneralization of dangerous situations that leads to a lot of avoidance behaviour - that in the long run could have been a negative evolutionary factor

23

metekillot t1_iv4x5he wrote

as long as you were more fit to reproduce and your offspring were themselves fit enough to reproduce, evolution will select for it. 25 years of mental anguish versus 14 of relative peace because you were an easy-going type in an extremely dangerous environment.

16

ruesselmann t1_iv56rlt wrote

I believe there is more to selection than surviving. If you want to reproduce, you have to be able to function in a community which is very hard while suffering a mental illness (in a pre-modern community that would be). Also, one would probably not be a preferred mating partner.

I would tend to see it as a disfunctional process that may in some cases be useful but in other cases as a evolutionary disadvantage.

I'd look at it like a mental scar or wound, that sometimes can have a good and healthy outcome and sometimes fester and become infected.

6

jejacks00n t1_iv59zdu wrote

In an environment where it’s always opt in, you’re probably right, but historically speaking, sex wasn’t always a choice for everyone.

6

ruesselmann t1_iv5dohv wrote

And being more irritable and showing a faster fight flight reaction helps with forceful intercourse how?

2

RatherBeATree t1_iv5joaf wrote

It's more like: fight/flight/freeze/fawn/faint. Most people can't feel sexually aroused in F mode, but plenty can. And trauma can absolutely be the thing to cross those wires. F mode isn't gonna produce an intimate social connection, but all that adrenaline is going to make it pretty easy to overpower someone and succeed in passing on the genes anyway. It's a pretty effective two-pronged approach. If the safe/social branch of the nervous system fails in a given environment, lizard brain is still there to save the species.

So, that's the male side. On the female side, cPTSD made me hypersexual. Before meds and therapy, I was always ready to go. And I was much more attracted to intimidating strangers than people I felt community with. Add in the fawn response which doesn't just make it hard to say 'no', it also makes it hard to not say 'yes'...

So not only did my body have a high drive for behaviors that would historically have lead to becoming impregnated, it was also driving me towards acquiring novel genes from strange, aggressive men. Thus passing along the PTSD response while combining it with genes more likely to prosper in an environment where the safe/social approach isn't working.

6

sault18 t1_iv5e688 wrote

The difference is that most members of the tribe would have similar experiences instead of a ptsd sufferer being mostly unique in the tribe. So ptsd symptoms would be the norm. The nightmares and other symptoms of ptsd would most likely to be attributed to "bad spirits" or whatever the group's religious traditions said it was.

3

PPOKEZ t1_iv62laf wrote

I don’t think we can forget that community had a tempering effect on the more negative aspects. Everyone around you knew your pain and/or experienced it with you.

6

patrickSwayzeNU t1_iv5h23t wrote

I’m riffing here - intrusive thoughts could be the work of a second, long term focused system that works to “refresh” the trauma.

With respect to over generalization - that’s simply a natural outcome of a discrimination model working with asymmetric costs. False negatives have higher cost here than false positives.

5

ruesselmann t1_iv5jc0h wrote

Interesting thoughts.

Yes I'd agree that overgeneralization sustains avoidance behaviour which short term can be with your cost/benefit reults. On the other hand it hinders more diverse behaviour long term and that would be (or at least could) a negative evolutionary fit. Which would not make it (ptsd) a positive evolutionary trait but just something where it stayed in spite evolutionary pressure.

The intrusive thoughts are often seen as refreshing the actuality of the trauma, but not as purpose but more as a unconscious attempt of integrating the emotional "short-curcuit" of a experience

2