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SonofTreehorn t1_j0b7in6 wrote

No, the COVID vaccine is not causing a spike in flu or RSV. The logical answer is we went from masks and isolation to the complete opposite. It would be like arguing that the initial round of COVID vaccines wiped out flu and rsv. It’s the old correlation does not imply causation. Your family is not going to believe you even with data. Stop wasting your time.


Fuddle t1_j0bnr86 wrote

If anything I wonder if there is data on if having Covid affects the immune system or respiratory system which leads to stronger reactions to subsequent infections from other respiratory viruses.


rowanskye OP t1_j0bdjht wrote

I appreciate the response. While I agree with your hypothesis, it is still important to me I have data to back up my views.

To me, there is no known method by which the mRNA vaccines would have increased immune susceptibility to flu and RSV. That said, these are new vaccines technologies, so it's reasonable enough that some people are abundantly cautious about them. They were also administered to billions of people, alongside relatively large swaths of people abstaining from vaccination, so I don't see why this data wouldn't be available.

I think studies of this nature would help in the long-term to quell their fears, increasing common sense health care uptake, which ultimately is better for everyone.

On a philosophical note, I don't think it's ever a waste of time to engage with humans of differing views. I feel it's the only way out of our echo chambers.


GreatAndPowerfulNixy t1_j0bf1ky wrote

It's a huge waste of time engaging on this subject. No one in the anti-vaccine group got themselves into that opinion with reasoning; it's pure emotion driven by sociopathic politicians on the political Right. They're not in an echo chamber, they're in a thirty-foot hole of their own making... And they sure as heck aren't going to dig themselves back out again any time soon.

Best to cut the tumor out of your life rather than let it become metastatic.


dogmeat12358 t1_j0d080q wrote

There is also a strong left leaning anti-vax contingent. This topic is often listed as an example of the horseshoe effect.


GreatAndPowerfulNixy t1_j0ehuvb wrote

It's a very poor example, since radical "left-leaning" anti-vaccination proponents do a very poor job of hiding their rightward political bend.


Frubanoid t1_j0bljzt wrote

But then won't the cancerous elements of society just coalesce and procreate even more?


Occasional_Lime t1_j0ccwui wrote

Interestingly I was listening to a radio interview the other day and the scientific communications expert they were talking to said that there are studies that show the more data and facts you use to back up your beliefs (when trying to fight disinformation) the more the other party will dig in and become even more entrenched in their views. Since it was radio I don't have a link, but that might be googleable. So getting studies might help you to have confidence in the hypothesis, but it is unlikely to sway peoples thinking, especially if they have a distrust of science already.


[deleted] t1_j0b8ezr wrote



aphasic t1_j0bea8m wrote

People are regularly exposed, every season we have X million exposed, and 5% or whatever are severe. Due to the pandemic we basically skipped 2X exposures that would have happened, so now we are having 2-3x all at once. Even if the same 5% were severe, it would be bad. That also ignores two other factors, viruses spread better in populations with fewer immune individuals to act like fire breaks, and we also probably put selection pressure on flu and rsv to be more contagious (to allow survival during covid measures). All of that together is probably a perfect storm of infection. We are probably infecting a lot more people per day than a normal year due to all these factors.


niftyifty t1_j0bghc4 wrote

Thank you. So the firebreaks makes sense to me. Are we really 2x’ing exposure though? Wouldn’t exposure rates be somewhat consistent annually outside of pandemic years? Prime sent note exposed today than say 2019, correct? I guess what I’m asking is, shouldn’t this year just be “back to normal” If it is exposure related? Am I thinking of “exposure” incorrectly?


phred14 t1_j0c9g78 wrote

Though not causation I might expect some correlation, with the assumption that the vaccinated are more likely to follow other general medical precautions.