Nelson_Gremdella t1_j80afrf wrote
OP, what exactly are you upset about?
Is it the problems with the transit system outlined in the article you shared, or is it the fact that the article used a white person’s interview to publish and tell the story of how the transit system needs help?
If your answer is the latter, I would google the term “divide and conquer,” because that is how a ruling class achieves what is called redirection.
In even more simple terms, who’s your real enemy?
The people collecting taxes from you and putting it in their pocket while the infrastructure decays out of their sight, or is it the white person sat next to you on the bus on their way to work?
And to answer my earlier (rhetorical) question about your skin color, OP… the answer is “why would it matter what color your skin is?”
The article discussed very real problems with the transit system. If you’re unable to process that without posting on Reddit about skin color, you have been divided and conquered.
justin774 t1_j80c4p9 wrote
Well put
skrewballl t1_j85e83a wrote
noun: strawman
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
why couldnt you engage with their original question?
this comment im responding to being at the top of this thread really shows the state of this sub!
wild
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j85mpft wrote
>easier to defeat than an opponent’s argument
Can you please clarify the OP’s “argument.”
skrewballl t1_j85n24m wrote
read: OP's question
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j85oon8 wrote
I’m still missing the “argument” here.
Please would you spell it out for me?
skrewballl t1_j85wv9p wrote
it was a question, not an argument, and the strawman fallacy still applies.
OP asked "How difficult can it be to find a Black person who rides the bus by necessity and not by choice to talk to? Or a Black transit advocate?"
you answered none of that, and redirected it to
then you suggested that they meant to ask something else: "what are you really upset about?"
then proceeded to answer your own questions instead of theirs: "s it the problems with the transit system outlined in the article you shared, or is it the fact that the article used a white person’s interview to publish and tell the story of how the transit system needs help?
If your answer is the latter, I would google the term “divide and conquer,” because that is how a ruling class achieves what is called redirection."
then you came to a conclusion that was pointed at OP and (insultingly) made a remark about how theyve been discredited: "The article discussed very real problems with the transit system. If you’re unable to process that without posting on Reddit about skin color, you have been divided and conquered."
OP never said that real problems werent talked about in the article, or even even comment all on the quality of the article. They asked about something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, which you chose to ignore.
This is a textbook example of a strawman fallacy and I couldnt spell it out for you more than that.
the point is that you missed the point and everyone patted you no the back while OP got downvoted a ton and kinda made fun of and made to feel bad about asking a legit question.
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j86krut wrote
>How difficult can it be to find a Black person who rides the bus by necessity and not by choice to talk to? Or a Black transit advocate?
What exactly is it that upsets you about this article?
Why does the article have to feature “a black person who rides the bus by necessity and not by choice” for you to understand that the issues described in the article regarding the transit system apply to everyone and anyone who uses the transit system?
Look, I understand you are coming from a good place. As a white person, you don’t want black people to get shit on and all that. We all feel that way.
However, this article isn’t it.
If anything this article is bringing real issues to light that affect “black people that have to ride the bus through necessity,” which is good.
The reason why more “black people ride the bus through necessity” than white people is definitely not an article highlighting very real issues bus riders face…
Right?
skrewballl t1_j86mnjh wrote
i think the point is that you are just being way too literal about this in a situation where OP was to me kinda leaning more towards the general idea that the banner was taking a page out of the suns book (paper lol) by just not representing the community. and if its obvious enough for someone to think about and question, its worth talking about. instead OP was kind of just battered around about their question mostly without it ever being answered. and that to me is one of the insidious parts of strucural racism. if we all just figure that what the white people are saying is the same as what other races might say because those are the people that the publication is aimed at and its a general issue, then it just makes an echo chamber for one dominant groups perspectives.
sorry for the crummy formatting but i think im finished with this lil spat, nice talkin to ya!
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j86pu3z wrote
I hear what you’re saying, and like I told the OP, I believe you’re coming from a good place.
I just feeling like this is overshooting, and continuing to do so will just delegitimize any real issues this city has with poverty.
[deleted] OP t1_j80m3lh wrote
I was perfectly fine with the content of the reporting, my issue was with how they presented it. It's a critique of how legacy media (from which the Banner has poached mist of its journalists) covers an issue that disproportionately affect Baltimore's Black community. That's pretty clear from my original post. As I also said below, the fact that almost all local reporters live in the burbs or the White L skews the way they cover Baltimore. They often fall back on reporting from only within their own social bubbles, and coverage of Baltimore suffers as a result. You seem to no problem with local reporters not talking to the Black people for important stories that affect them, as you don't address the issue at all. Maybe you can point to other stories that they've done that cover working class transit commuters who don't have the luxury of a fall back car to drive to work? You know, average people, not the ones the reporters go to happy hours with.
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j80vciz wrote
I can see that you’re upset about this, and I believe you are coming from a good place, seriously.
There are problems with the transit system.
The article discusses these problems.
The article isn’t talking about “white people problems” if the problems they’re talking about “disproportionately affect black people.”
But this article isn’t your issue. Your issue is with the way this media outlet generally caters to a white audience, and this article was used as an example to demonstrate this gripe you have with this particular media outlet.
My advice, take a step back and look at the big picture (I’m not trying to patronize you). Whatever the Baltimore Banner is, their goal isn’t white supremacy. Their goal is to make money.
I mean, in this one article alone there are like 8 commercials. They’re in the money making business.
And… we all just read an article talking about a problem in this city that “disproportionately affects black people.” Good thing.
Maybe Hallie Miller decided that just focusing on the problems with the transit system itself was the way to go rather than publishing an article that paints black people as poor, bus-riding victims without cars?
Maybe her goal was to also point out that white people ride the bus, too. Unity. We’re all in this together. Who knows?
[deleted] OP t1_j80z1ot wrote
Fair points, and thanks for the reply. I've already stepped back, mostly letting this play out without response. I rarely post on social media, and I see how I muddied the point I was trying to make by being snarky (and in some ways a bit incoherent.) It is what it is. Cheers.
skrewballl t1_j81ww2n wrote
this whole conversation is totally messed up! i think you had a totally valid point from the beginning. divide and conquer stuff is real but you didnt say "these white people have no idea what the real problems are that black people face on busses", you were pointing out SYSTEMIC stuff. I dont think that the banner's goal is white supremacy, but even the most progressive/equity and race conscious media outlet is still operating in a machine that has, since its beginning, been instrumental in engineering public thought. whether with sinister intent or not, its true, and what you are asking about is real shit and the kind of conversations that people love to write off. especially in baltimore! at the end of the day this points to an issue of the majority of a city's population often don't feel seen/acknowledged/represented. you shouldnt be corrected or made to feel wrong about that. especially in baltimore, which i think we can all agree has a declining population and is frantically trying to sell its image to bring in more citizens. it is important to think about why this underrepresentation might be an issue to someone. this question seems to have less to do with bus problems and more about properly representing a citys population in its news coverage.
I notice a lot on reddit that people love to act like that acknowledging, questioning, and dismantling systemic racism through discourse like this is somehow unneccessarily "making it about skin color/race". a lot of shit in this country IS about race, and pretending its not or chastizing others for bringing it up is playing into that system. making you feel silly/weird/awkward about asking a very specific question that they dont feel like is REALLY what you were trying to say sounds like some typical neoliberal "no this is what you meant" bullshit.
i dont know yalls races/whatever, but i sure have some guesses
also im white and live in the white l
skepticism and critique should always be welcomed with open arms! seems like some people around here are fond of doing a little "redirection" themselves. whether conscious or not
im glad you made this post and i encourage you to post more like this! <3
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j83tic9 wrote
Edited as I totally misquoted you.
Can you describe the systemic racism you see in this article about the Baltimore transit system?
skrewballl t1_j85dk5g wrote
yes, the systemic (structural may be an even better way to say it) racism is in the lack of black voices in the article. simple as
idk why everyone wants to point back to the content of the article, thats not the point. the point OP was trying to start discourse about (imo) was that the article is just kind of disingenuous just by omission of specifically black voices in a city where the majority of riders are black/ non white. especially in a place like baltimore where no matter how much everyone wants to sweep discourse about the way race factors into things right under the rug, it is an integral part of the way everything operates.
this is the usa, it was built by slaves of many (non white) races, and the idea that people are MAKING things about race is ridiculous and ignorant. things are always already about race. and the more people are chastized for talking about it, the more it will be ignored and made to fester into something completely unmanagable. i know they can be uncomfortable conversations for people, but that just means they are REALLY important to talk about. the real divide and conquer and redirection lies in the taboo of talking about stuff like this. if we can agree to have open discourse about it in a calm and considerate manner then it can no longer be used as a tool to divide us!
then we can ALL really feel like were getting great public transportation.
also im still tripping on the fact that OP just made an observation and asked a question and everyone immediately blasted them about why they were asking the wrong question instead of engaging with what they were saying. this is something i feel like i see on reddit pretty often.
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j85odov wrote
The OP’s question is what is called a suggestive question.
What was the OP suggesting?
The reason why you cannot you describe the systemic racism you see in this particular article… is because there isn’t any.
And, no. Saying that black people were slaves does not describe systemic racism in this article about the Baltimore transit system.
What is it you are upset about?
skrewballl t1_j85vil2 wrote
are you a bot?
people keep answering your questions and then you just tell them that they arent answering your questions?
i answered you, its the lack of black voices in the piece.
better go redress yr straw, its gettin kinda stinky!
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j86lqro wrote
Right, but the question is why does the article have to feature a bus rider with black skin for you to not be offended?
skrewballl t1_j86ywl2 wrote
well to me the question is why does someone have to be called "offended" just because they want to talk about something or point something important out?
who ever said they were offended?
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j88l1m1 wrote
You stated that you are upset because the article doesn’t feature any black people.
You claim you want to have a conversation about systemic racism.
These are two very different things.
The fact that a media outlet published an article about issues with the transit system without publishing any interviews with black people is not racism. It is also not systemic racism.
The article is about how shitty the transit system is.
Again, the article is about how shitty the bus system is.
It’s not an article exploring how poverty and systemic racism plague this city, etc. etc.
You have become a white person who is now dictating the skin color of people local media outlets are allowed to interview.
This ^ is racism. This is dictatorship. Google “Hitler.”
Take a step back.
If the crappy transit system disproportionately affects black people, isn’t it a good thing the news article published a piece on it?
Racism is a real issue. When everything is “racist,” no one is gonna care anymore.
Answer the question. Edit: please
skrewballl t1_j89lhdd wrote
i already answered all yr questions
ill be sure to check with you and make sure its okay next time i attempt to have a conversation about racism
good day
Nelson_Gremdella t1_j8a620t wrote
“I wanna have a conversation about racism” …lol
skrewballl t1_j85dpn0 wrote
aaaaaaaaaaand now poor OP even deleted their account! damn yall! lol
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