Shady Restaurant Practices - Seeking Advice

Submitted by PigtownFoo t3_121vwex in baltimore

I’m really upset for a chef friend who was promised a line cook job from an executive chef (EC) at a local fine dining restaurant.

The previous week, the EC had my buddy work a free 9-hour stage (pronounced “stahj” for those who aren’t familiar), and afterward the EC told him that he was hired. My friend was told he’d start this past Tuesday, but when he tried to follow up, the EC was ghosting him. Finally he heard from the EC and was told he wasn’t needed.

I’m not one to blast businesses, but this is really messed up, especially after everything food industry workers have gone through over the last few years. A whole 9-hour shift for free, then ghosted and then discarded. I’m surprised that this restaurant would want to operate this way. At least pay the man for his long stage.

Anyone know if my friend can push to be paid for that 9-hour stage? He’s down and out and was recently evicted (but a friend took him in). I’ve been trying help him find jobs. If anyone knows of any cooking jobs, please post below, too. He’s a talented chef, former Marine and just really loves to cook. He’s trying his best, and I hated seeing him be so crestfallen.

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Cunninghams_right t1_jdnsh5s wrote

hmm. could send them an invoice for services rendered. if they don't pay, go to small claims court.

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Mikel32 t1_jdnpc77 wrote

Fuck that shit. Put them on blast.

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdnt4or wrote

Magdalena

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dunkinnutsdo t1_jdnu10i wrote

Review bomb is the way. Magdalena bistro correct?

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jwseagles t1_jdocmfh wrote

I feel like review bombing isn’t the best way to handle this. Why not wait til OP’s friend tries another course of action? I mean, they haven’t asked for money yet (not that I expect it to be paid). Solid chance ownership wasn’t even aware the EC did this. Reviews can really fuck with a place - is it worth potentially ruining a local business over this?

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dunkinnutsdo t1_jdohxcw wrote

That’s my strangers friend we’re talking about!

They charge $14 for celery soup. They’ll be ight. We shall wait for the verdict of the situation being properly handled if not…bombs away.

But also you don’t think My strangers friend will get paid. You also don’t think ownership knows about this shitty act.

What would be a good course of action for stranger friend to take and a good response from establishment?

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jwseagles t1_jdoj66d wrote

I would create an invoice using whatever the fmv is of the services rendered and reach out to management/owners. If that doesn’t work after a few tries, reach out to the dept of labor. I just think it’s the chef that should have to suffer, not the entire restaurant.

Edit: just noticed Sally O’s is hiring a sous. OP’s friend should apply. Seems like a great place to work plus they’re on their way to making their own little empire - aka great opportunity for advancement.

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Reddywhipt t1_jdr5jaz wrote

I won't choose to eat there. Horribly exploitative practice. Especially considering the price of a meal there. I went to Woodberry once but will never go back because of what I e heard about my them since. That's some total bullshit

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fboyisland t1_jdoyahm wrote

This place was so good like 5ish years ago. Now, not so much. They could’ve used your friend’s help- their loss. Send them a bill

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TheSyrianItalian t1_jdo3o4y wrote

Contact the State of Maryland department of labor

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planetarylaw t1_jdnorlt wrote

I don't know the legality of this practice but it's a common practice in salons too. At least it was way back in the day in another city I lived at the time. I "tried out" at multiple salons that strung me along and never hired me and never paid me. I suspect they do it knowing full well it's free labor without ever intending to hire anyone. It's super shitty and exploitative. I'm sorry for your friend. Maybe look up the state labor board?

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donniefckinlarsons t1_jdo0jol wrote

9 hour stage? jesus christ longest i’ll stage before i require payment is 4 hours. buddy was probably used as a placeholder till the EC friend was able to actually start working.

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdo7srf wrote

Yeah. I’m shocked at a 9-hr stage that would not at least pay minimum wage or $100 just to be decent.

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donniefckinlarsons t1_jdp3j2x wrote

yeah i mean don’t get me wrong i think staging is bullshit and you should get paid for the work, on that same note i’ve seen countless people lie and apply for something they can’t do and it’s proven in stage.

friend should have been paid at the end of the day and immediately did paperwork, tax forms.

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Slime__queen t1_jdo08vx wrote

Restaurant stages and lengthy unpaid trial shifts are both illegal assuming he cooked for customers. He should ask to be paid and mention this when he does so.

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addctd2badideas t1_jdnu5uz wrote

Tell them to go public. I would never tolerate this from a white collar employer, and it should still be unacceptable to treat workers this way.

But it should also be a lesson to your friend to always get things in writing.

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BmoreBr0 t1_jdo1umm wrote

I know plenty of white collar employers that make job candidates complete large sample work products as part of the hiring process which they are not paid for, but can often take multiple days to complete.

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addctd2badideas t1_jdo3nnm wrote

It is indeed still something that happens. I had to do one too for my last job. If it's something that only takes an hour or two, I don't think it's that bad. But anything more, one should be paid for.

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dweezil22 t1_jdomuu9 wrote

The question is whether the employer uses the product of an interview to profit. For example, a 12 hour take home programming test is shitty, but a 12 hour take home test for a fake job where the employer uses the code in production is criminal. Usually it's the former, and ppl get conspiratorial and think it's the latter (doing the latter doesn't tend to even work well, since someone still has to debug and support the code).

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gaytee t1_jdohko2 wrote

Hiring for any job that pays more than 40k will take 3-4 steps, and likely 2-6 weeks.

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TheBaltimoron t1_jdypvbx wrote

And to be clear, writing doesn't have to mean a formal contract, just send a text.

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gaytee t1_jdohhqk wrote

To become a software engineer, I completed over 100 hours of “take home” assignments. This is very common and an acceptable way to see if people are not entirely full of shit.

And not to be the dickhead, but a huge chunk of people in hospitality are full of shit.

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[deleted] t1_jdow1pr wrote

[deleted]

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gaytee t1_jdpqjmn wrote

I’ll defer the hater attitude and downvotes to let you all know that now I work 20 hour weeks at MOST, from wherever I want, and make a healthy six figures.

Sure the scale differs when you’re a software engineer, not a cook, but the fact is that for all jobs, I don’t trust anyone’s resume, I trust how they handle Sunday brunch or a regional instance of an AWS cluster failing during deploy that causes the SaaS app to fail on a peak weekend.

I’d never hire you blindly, but I’d let you do a coding challenge, the same way I’d let you stage during a catered event to see how you handle it.

To be clear, each job application is maybe 2-3 hours of work, I didn’t do 3 full time weeks of work for one app, as much as the software engineering job market is very competitive and it took a while to find a good opportunity.

Get with it or stay poor, sad and broken, homies. I am only here to help provide insight into how the rest of the world without college degrees, myself included, makes it.

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TheBaltimoron t1_jdyq0ne wrote

Who is talking about hiring blindly? If you work, you get paid.

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[deleted] t1_jdutq2p wrote

[deleted]

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gaytee t1_jdvfxc5 wrote

It’s not different from what I originally said, but for some reason all of you chose to think I put in nearly a month of work for some app where my coding assignments were used in production which really happens far less often than some of the hiring horror stories suggest.

While that does happen some of the time, it’s not common practice. I get it though, the downvotes are just projections of insecurities bcz jealousy causes weird reactions.

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[deleted] t1_jdw24ed wrote

[deleted]

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gaytee t1_jdw5hhh wrote

Lol. If you think any of this is humble bragging, I feel bad for anyone who tries to have a conversation with you that contains opposing views. This is me doing nothing more than providing realistic insight into a different industry than OP was talking about that has similar hiring strategies, because this hiring strategy exists everywhere and it's goal is to weed out liars.

Until you draft the legislation to require staging/interview time to be paid and it gets signed into law, all of your energy dedicated to being upset at less than legal hiring practices is nothing more than a waste of time. You could be improving your earning potential, increasing your industry knowledge and get promoted, but you'd rather project insecurities about your lack of success in this thread than accept that maybe more of life is within your control than you admit and you're just lazy. Why do you expect everything, including jobs to just be handed to you without earning them? Filling out an application and having a decent work history is NOT earning the job, its earning the opportunity to be considered seriously.

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addctd2badideas t1_jdoyvfa wrote

Is it common? Perhaps.

Is it acceptable???

No.

No. No. Bad.

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gaytee t1_jdpqop6 wrote

While you and everyone else on Reddit lives in a dreamworld, the rest of us have accepted it for what it is and figured out a way to make it work. But enjoy your echo chamber, there’s some benefit to venting…

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Glaucon321 t1_jdtuuq2 wrote

There seems to be a clear difference between assessments of an applicant’s ability, on one hand, and the sale/use of their work product, on the other. I’ve gone through lengthy job application cycles as well, which have included completing hypothetical assignments. But that’s entirely different than doing work for someone, ie creating something that that person then profits from, resells, or otherwise takes ownership of. That’s called unjust enrichment and can lead to civil liability. The legal way to do this is to have a 90-day provisional period where an employer can decide not to hire you, and offer you less benefits during that period (though they still have to pay you).

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Smgwii8 t1_jdoo9ky wrote

Woodberry Kitchen and Foodshed in general does this constantly, amongst other shady payment practices. A lot of beloved places around town get away with it because they are beloved, just based of my experiences and opinion.

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ChicNoir t1_jdqv1hg wrote

Call them out!!!

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Smgwii8 t1_jdqxqxc wrote

https://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-md-ci-woodberry-lawsuit-20150612-story.html

This is pretty widely known and people still support their business so I’m not sure I can really make a difference lol

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langleyoliveros t1_jdrnzli wrote

Restaurants that put the chef's name on the menu are an argument for Maoism more often than not.

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TheBaltimoron t1_jdyq4zl wrote

I mean, fuck Spike, but this was 2015.

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Smgwii8 t1_je16dz6 wrote

I see what you mean but with due respect I think this is the exact mentality that allows these places to get away with this continuously.

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OwsleysApples t1_jdo7jup wrote

Sure The Department of Labor could answer that question. I am pretty sure free labor is never a thing.

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wigwam83 t1_jdo42kz wrote

That sucks, but you're a good friend. Hope your buddy can get back on his feet

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdo88t1 wrote

I’m hoping so. Life has been hard on him these last few years. It was the look of disappointment and defeat in his eyes when he told me that led me to post. I am former restaurant industry and am friends with many still in, including some owners. But this really rubs me the wrong way. I might be more outraged than he is, which might be due to our age difference.

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Brief_Exit1798 t1_jdo6suc wrote

They can't ghost your friend if your friend shows up at the restaurant

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k00kiestdad t1_jdotmax wrote

It's so common here, unfortunately. I had a similar experience with Ekiben.

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jelani410 t1_jdoycxx wrote

My job is hiring… it’s bs but it’s something until he can find something else they’ll definitely hire him. It’s really easy and it’s cooking.

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Legitimate_Angle5123 t1_jdogp93 wrote

What restaurant? Also have him try Cindy Lou’s fishouse. It’s In Canopy hotel part of Hilton in harbor east. A working interview or stage he should be paid minimum wage at least

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdpg3ai wrote

It was Magdalena. I’ll let him know about Cindy Lou’s. Thanks.

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Old_Ganache4365 t1_jdojnpk wrote

This is the reason why so many ppl quit the hospitality industry en mass. As someone who worked in the industry for 15yrs this is not uncommon. I worked many “training” shifts that were unpaid. It sucks! I would encourage your friend to keep applying. He will land somewhere soon.

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nesto92 t1_jdol7dv wrote

Eff that - out the restaurant. This crap goes too long, too far in the industry and crap needs to end, period.

But someone else mentioned it earlier - an invoice could be a step in that direction, but your friend will most likely not see that money and court fees may be way more than what the services rendered were. Second option is Labor board to report them, third option would be letting the local councilmember who oversees the area covering the restaurant also know.

If he thinks he has enough info to take it up in a legal action, I'd be happy to help. I'm just about to wrap up law school and can ask friends to see what pro bono resources are available to connect your friend with.

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alomagicat t1_jdp1nas wrote

Nah call DOL you do not work for free. If that 9 hour shift was part of the interview process you can at least get paid minimum wage for it.

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call_me_ping t1_jdpjnjh wrote

A lot of advice and experience has already been shared, but I want to reiterate: Verbal agreements are tricky-- but regardless of legality, it's super shitty to get used and ghosted in any capacity. Your friend is right to be upset at being led on then not even given the courtesy of "hey, something happened last minute. Here's compensation for your time," which was wasted.

I don't care if this is "standard" or "not unheard of" in industries-- kudos to your friend for sticking up for themselves and not rolling over.

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Smgwii8 t1_jdqrbny wrote

Couldn’t agree more. The idea that if something is “standard practice” that makes it okay is laughable. People defending working for free are just people who had the means to be able to afford doing that in the first place most likely.

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ObviousGazelle t1_jdptk4c wrote

The only reason these things happen is because people are dumb or desperate enough to do it. And then when they realize they been had, are too embarrassed to do anything about it, which encourages these piece of shit owner types to be even more brazen.

Don't worry they'll cross the wrong MFer one day who will be well connected enough to solve their problems.

Also is it just me or is the whole industry going to shit fast around here...

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdriurf wrote

I guess these guys will get away with it because my friend doesn’t seem to be up for the challenge of at least asking for some money for the day’s work.

It’s a tough industry, and I am glad to have left it. Thought the owners learned a few things about humanity after the pandemic, but perhaps not.

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KuzyBeCackling t1_jdp7rdq wrote

Would your friend be willing to take a job as a cashier? I know of a restaurant that is looking to hire full time. Not the dream job, but they’re good people and it’s something to get him a little more stability.

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subtle-tea t1_jdqvxmb wrote

This is not a stage. A stage is an unpaid internship for aspiring chefs to learn techniques in established kitchens. What you’re describing is more of a trail, but a 9 hour shift making food for paying customers is abuse and your friend is likely entitled to be paid.

Filing a complaint with MD DoL is filling out some paperwork. They have their own investigators who will do the fact finding on your behalf. In MD damages are treble for flagrant wage violations.

If he isn’t willing to “make a fuss” then that’s that. Just know that you have to put some work in to recoup this and filing these complaints helps enforce labor laws that protect workers from employer mistreatment.

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PigtownDesign t1_jdtru5a wrote

According to my chef friends, a stage is also like a try-out in a kitchen for the executive chef to see how well you can prep and cook and see your technique.

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TheBaltimoron t1_jdyqeln wrote

Stage and working interview are pretty synonymous. Some chefs do go apprentice in other kitchens but it's never for free.

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subtle-tea t1_jdvj3l3 wrote

I would guess some kitchens in the US have come to use these terms more loosely. Traditionally the word stage comes from the French “stagaire” which means apprentice or intern. Many famous chefs got their start begging to work for free in well known kitchens to gain experience or a future position.

A trail is more of a brief working audition. The purpose is to showcase your skills and ability to perform in the kitchen where you are seeking employment.

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DfcukinLite t1_jdnzu9v wrote

This is a common practice with these shady business owners in Baltimore. I’ve worked in hospitality in the city since I was 19. And it’s happened to me getting ghosted for a server and bartender job after being confirmed hired. It’s sucks but MD is “at-will”.

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seminarysmooth t1_jdo93yf wrote

I’d like to think that an offer of a position, once accepted, means that he should receive unemployment insurance now.

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KuzyBeCackling t1_jdp8kko wrote

You have to have worked a minimum time frame in MD to receive UI benefits. A job offer does not entitle you to that.

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Glaucon321 t1_jdtv5fp wrote

The MD Dept of Labor is one way to go, but it may take a while. If you want to DM me I can talk about options with your friend. I am a lawyer in MD that does this kind of work.

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdtvdxr wrote

I appreciate it and will let him know. Will shoot you a message either way.

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131sean131 t1_jdpe26z wrote

Ya tell your friend to get everything in writing next time. Idk how common it is in the restaurant industry to work 9 hours for no pay but that sounds like some bs as an outsider looking in.

As always in situations like this a lawyer is going to give the best advice.

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdpgatp wrote

It is some serious B.S. Unfortunately, he seems like he doesn’t want to raise a fuss, despite me telling him he could probably get some compensation.

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Status-Condition5708 t1_jdnxchs wrote

By chance is it part of the Atlas group?

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdnxklu wrote

I don’t believe Magdalena is part of Atlas.

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Status-Condition5708 t1_jdnxxdz wrote

Oh. I’m sorry if the name was posted I’m distracted today. That just sounds like some shady stuff Atlas would pull.

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdny5g6 wrote

Oh, that’s ok! I would expect the same. Really surprised that Magdalena operates this way.

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CorneliusSoctifo t1_jdo5zyf wrote

was your friend promised payment for the work performed? it was it on a "trial" basis and he thought it he did well he would get a job? was the "EC" even someone in a position at the restaurant to hire people? or was he just a dude talking big on a side job making promises and scanning your friend?

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdoa0mn wrote

He told me that he met with the EC the day after the stage, and they agreed on his rate and an official start date of last week Tuesday. My friend felt certain that everything was set and ready to go.

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CorneliusSoctifo t1_jdoaviq wrote

ok you missed the entire point.

was dude actually in a position to offer your friend this job?

ok sure, he may work at that restaurant, but he could have just been a random cook out lower level manager that had no ability for hiring.

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdobgs9 wrote

Lol. What point do you think I’m missing…? Executive Chefs are certainly able to hire, and that is who offered him the job and whom he sat down with to discuss salary.

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CorneliusSoctifo t1_jdocjau wrote

how do you know it was the actual executive chef? because your friend told you?

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdodqbv wrote

Yes. It’s because he told me, and I believe him 100%. In the several years I’ve known him to be many things, but a liar is not one of them. He’s at times irritatingly honest.

That said, I know the point you seem intent on making, so feel free to run with it.

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TheBaltimoron t1_jdyqmjm wrote

Lol yes ECs hire BOH. The EC of Magdelena is well-known. A boastful line cook isn't sneaking someone on the line for 9 hours lol

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tardisthecat t1_jdphu3z wrote

Post in r/legaladvice and be sure to include your location. They can provide the most appropriate course of action.

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TheBaltimoron t1_jdpnyj5 wrote

Does your friend have a record? Does he know anyone else who works there?

EDIT: downvotes?

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdrifaq wrote

I don’t believe he has a record (criminal?), nor do I think he knew anyone who works there. Normally he’d tell me if he know someone. He’s been in the industry and in Baltimore for a while, and often he has worked with someone before or at least knows someone on the staff.

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TheBaltimoron t1_jdtbons wrote

I ask because I've seen it happen where someone is offered the job then either a background check turns up something or someone on staff dishes some dirt on the prospective new employee and the restaurant ghosts the guy.

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Missriotgurl t1_jdplv9z wrote

This is a common fine dining kitchen practice, not just a Baltimore thing. It is the kitchen equivalent of an interview , If it is paid ( usually it's not), you agree to that before you start. Your friend just didn't understand what he signed up for.

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Leftturn0619 t1_jdnx9rb wrote

There was never a contract to get paid so he is out of luck. Poor guy.

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gaytee t1_jdogya3 wrote

You/your friend should know better than to expect ethics from the hospitality industry.

Assuming a line cook makes 20 an hour, which is high, that means your “friend” is owed $180 bucks. Closer to $140 after taxes.

Youll likely spend more time in this thread than your friend did at work, and neither of you will ever be compensated.

Fact is, hospitality is toxic and this is a $180 sign of gratitude that they don’t have to work for that EC.

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Wolfman3 t1_jdnm39n wrote

Is the restaurant part of the Atlas Group? If so, I’m not surprised at all.

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PigtownFoo OP t1_jdnmw5z wrote

It is not. I originally posted with the name of the restaurant and the EC’s name, but it was locked by moderators. I’m not sure what the rules are, but I will happily drop the name again if it won’t shut down the thread.

The restaurant is in a hotel (with three letters in its name…a climbing or creeping plant) and in Mt. Vernon.

Anyway, from what I’ve been reading today these stages are actually illegal. My buddy is in his 50s and old school, but he needs to ask to be paid out.

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