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rockybalBOHa t1_jbc344h wrote

I know there will be harsh criticism of this, especially on this sub, but if people vote for it, then isn't that democracy in action? Personally I don't think I support it, but I bet a lot people like the sense of control recalls seem to provide, especially for the perpetually disenfranchised. I mean, California has recall elections all the time.

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TenTonCloud t1_jbcbj24 wrote

As others have pointed out, there’s nothing wrong with recall votes inherently. The issue arises and seems to be the case here when the mechanism for these kinds of tools for democracy is abused and used for purely selfish political reasons, not any kind of specific reform or interest.

A recall vote suddenly creates the need for campaigning by any of the incumbent candidates in the government, which means less time to be spent towards actually trying to do any work for the sake of the city. Now, this could certainly be as malicious as trying to stop the government from doing work to help the city and be popular, or it could be as self-serving as to prevent the government from pushing forward with politics that certain groups disagree with.

Again, a recall vote isn’t necessarily bad, it’s just important that we look at the incentives that any one group may have to drive their actions and ask if it’s for the good of many or for the benefit of those with money and interest in causing trouble.

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rockybalBOHa t1_jbcdfwg wrote

Agree with most of what you said. I guess I'm wondering why the motivation for the ballot measure even matters. If it passes and a recall election occurs at some point, then the people got exactly what they wanted.

It seems to me that the criticism of these ballot measures is a veiled admittance that the electorate is inherently dumb and will vote against their own self interest. I happen to agree with this, but let's hear the Ryan Dorseys of the world say that. They won't even though that's exactly why we have a representative democracy, and not a direct democracy, in the first place.

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todareistobmore t1_jbdiegx wrote

> If it passes and a recall election occurs at some point, then the people got exactly what they wanted.

Not necessarily, you can look at CA's rules, for instance--a recall petition only requires 12% of the voters in the prior election to trigger the recall.

> It seems to me that the criticism of these ballot measures is a veiled admittance that the electorate is inherently dumb and will vote against their own self interest

Not necessarily, you can look at CA's Chesa Boudin recall election, for instance, where the appointee who took his place (and won the special election) simply neglected to disclose that she'd earned 6 figures working as a consultant working on the recall campaign itself, and promptly fired everybody involved in addressing wrongful convictions and police misconduct. But hey, on the bright side, crime rates haven't come down either, so who's to say this isn't democracy in action?

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ReturnOfSeq t1_jbdg5lt wrote

If it was being pushed nationwide, sure. Almost 90% of the people being ‘represented’ by George santos have said they want him gone, I’m sure there are quite a few others

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YoYoMoMa t1_jbej913 wrote

>I know there will be harsh criticism of this, especially on this sub, but if people vote for it, then isn't that democracy in action?

Sure. But I think it is one of those issues with a ton of unintended consequences. People want more accountability from politicians, and this will end up giving even more power to special interests and corporations.

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