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angryears923 t1_iu9g9p3 wrote

I’d imagine it’s because BPD is giving out a $5000 signing bonus, new recruits $1000 a month for housing, and a 2% salary bump starting in 2023

Sources here and here


frolicndetour t1_iu9v79b wrote

Not to mention that money goes way further here than in NYC.


darsavage t1_iu9z7ll wrote

Baltimore is offering 40-50% higher salary in an area that's half the cost of living.


BrunettexAmbition t1_iuai1qs wrote

While still giving the city life a New Yorker wants. Hi Baltimore, it’s me a New Yorker who moved here 🙋🏻‍♀️.


DoIt2It t1_iuair4g wrote

Yeah, but these are cops. In New York they all live in south Staten Island. Here, they’re going to move to Bel Air, and not spend a minute more in Baltimore than they need to to crack skulls and collect overtime.


archenemy_43 t1_iuaplgl wrote

They also won’t spend their money here. Therefor they’re simply extracting money from the city to spend and get taxed in the county of their choosing so that way, their kids get to go to a good school.

Remember this when you vote people.


mrspanky124 t1_iubx8z7 wrote

Whats the solution to this? We are already paying these big bonuses and still cant get locals to be cops.


Xanny t1_iudtse7 wrote

Locals don't want to be cops cuz they know the police are corrupt AF. There is no bandaid fix when what's needed is abolishing the BPD and rechartering with local neighborhood pds accountable to their constituents.


TCFirebird t1_iufobfr wrote

Right now, BPD is run by the state of Maryland. Vote yes on Question H in the midterms, to bring control back to the city.


Xanny t1_iufwdb6 wrote

Problem is this implies the city government is any more interested in serving the people, which is, uh, another problem.


Appropriate-Lab-5015 t1_iuau809 wrote

Central Harford is full of city cops and firefighters. You'll have 2 fire captains and 3 police lieutenants in the same subdivision. Retired cops and FF out golfing all summer at the public courses.


Gitopia t1_iubevwe wrote

And that's only bmore. If only you knew how many moco, pg and DC personnel also live in Bel air. It's absurd tbh


kosherkenny t1_iudgbxt wrote

i don't know how fair that is. if these are new recruits, maybe they want to actually instill change in the police force.

source: when i was coming back from deployment i started going the route of becoming a part of BPD, but decided to stay in my current career field instead.


caro822 OP t1_iub1v1i wrote

But I work in the middle of the city. So IDK.


BrunettexAmbition t1_iuao30i wrote

Or the BK, or BX, or Queens, or Long Island while using a different address.


DouchebagMcfucktard t1_iuca7ok wrote

wish they could spend more time to cracking skulls (that don't even house brains)


DeliMcPickles t1_iubwncd wrote

That's white cops from Jersey who "live" in Staten Island. I think it depends on the cop here as to where you live.


yeaughourdt t1_iu9y62u wrote

A BPD recruiting video I saw a while back had a quote of a guy saying "once you've done a few years in Baltimore you have the experience to go to any department in the country" or something to that effect.


TheRepoCode t1_iua69i3 wrote

I have friends in the BFD who say that is true for other fire services, but the conventional wisdom is that BPD you don't learn shit. The few LE types I have known due to being in the reserves seemed to get MD State LE (transit authority, MDOT police) jobs and then parlayed that into good police jobs elsewhere. Nice try by BPD though.


Vjornaxx t1_iub84ji wrote

>but the conventional wisdom is that BPD you don't learn shit.

That’s not true. If you spend a year in patrol, you are likely to have responded to multiple homicides, shootings, cuttings, robberies, car jackings, residential and commercial burglaries, and domestics. Very few other agencies offer that kind of experience.

Furthermore, the consent decree has made BPD’s law course extremely solid. It is popular on this sub to disparage the perceived knowledge of case law that BPD officers possess; but the truth is that BPD’s law program is one of the best ones in the nation and the BPD law staff is comprised of actual lawyers. Trainees come out of the academy with a solid law foundation and when they go through field training, they learn how to functionally apply case law to their actions.

When I have trainees, I always explain which case law is applicable to the actions I did or did not take. Before we arrive at calls, I tell them to explain to me what case laws may be applicable when we arrive and what that means for what we can and cannot do.

Officers with a year in patrol will respond to multiple hot calls that get their adrenaline pumping. They will participate in multiple foot chases. This means that they will develop effective strategies to manage the adrenaline dump and stay focused under stressful conditions and have a lot of experience doing it. They will be comfortable calling out suspect descriptions and locations on the radio. They will be comfortable dealing with subjects on scene screaming at them. They will have plenty of experience driving code in an urban environment.

In addition to the volume of critical incidents BPD officers will respond to, they will also be immersed in the narcotics trade. They will learn to recognize the players in the drug trade. They will learn how these crews operate, recognize the various drugs sold and how they are typically packaged and distributed. They will learn to recognize behaviors and signs that dealers are concealing drugs or weapons on or near them. They will learn to recognize the various paraphernalia that users keep on or near their person and what those objects are specifically used for. They will probably administer Narcan on an overdosing patient and probably administer CPR once or twice their first year.

I went to a conference with about 1000 cops from various agencies across America and very few outside of major cities have responded to a single homicide call. I was also shocked at how few of them were taught more than Terry v Ohio and Graham v Connor.

I admit that BPD has a lot it could do better, but it is a fact that officers with even a year on the street in Baltimore make for very strong candidates. It’s one of the reasons that we have such an immense staffing problem. Officers graduate and complete field training, then put in applications for other agencies who are happy to hire an officer with the kind of experience that BPD offers.


HopefulSuccotash t1_iude67p wrote

You should do an AMA. I've got questions, feel free to ignore them or just answer the first one which relates to your actual comment.

Are we losing most of our top tier candidates to other agencies and do you have any idea what that costs us? (It happens in our school system and I don't know the cost)

Why does it often feel like the police work is extremely lackluster when you're the victim of a crime?

Ivan Bates says that he's going to get cops enforcing traffic laws and squeegee statutes. Is this realistic, or is he "pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining"?

What does the average day and average week look like on patrol?


Vjornaxx t1_iudloee wrote

>Are we losing most of our top tier candidates to other agencies and do you have any idea what that costs us? (It happens in our school system and I don't know the cost)

I don’t believe that the quality of candidates plays into who is leaving. Officers across the board are leaving and it’s not limited to Baltimore. For officers with more time, other agencies offer higher pay for the same amount of years in grade in addition to large signing bonuses. For newer officers, they may be using BPD as a stepping stone towards their first choice agency. Other officers might want to get into specialized units and other agencies offer a better chance to do the kind of work they’d like. Some officers have had bad experiences and want to work for an agency or jurisdiction that has stronger relationships with officers.

As to the cost - I can only speculate and I wouldn’t even know where to begin. Trainees are taught as a class, so the money spent paying training staff and facility upkeep isn’t exactly lost. If the trainee graduated, made it through field training, and spent any time pushing a car in patrol, then the city got something out of them which means they put their training to use, so it’s not a lost cost; and I don’t think you could argue that their paycheck was somehow a lost investment if that officer answered calls for service. If it was an officer with a lot of time on, I think the cost is better viewed as loss of experienced personnel rather than a financial loss directly attributable to retention.

>Why does it often feel like the police work is extremely lackluster when you're the victim of a crime?

There is a lot that may contribute to this perception.

The FBI defines crimes in their Uniform Crime Reporting standard. Many calls that I respond to do not actually rise to the level of a reportable crime per UCR. Common calls include reports of “threats” which do not actually fit the definition of an assault by threat and is therefore simply a dispute which is not a crime.

Also, even with a UCR crime, enforcement can only take place when a suspect is identifiable. From a patrol perspective, we do our best to try to interview witnesses and canvass for cameras; but when we can not immediately identify a suspect, that task usually falls on detectives. I have not worked in a detective unit, but I know that the process of sifting through footage, statements, and interviews in order to positively identify a suspect takes a lot of time. Furthermore, the case load that BPD detectives carry is ridiculous - easily 4 to 5 times the FBI recommended case load per detective.

In many cases, it is almost impossible to identify a suspect in a manner which rises to probable cause. It is the difference between what you know and what you can prove. This is common with larceny incidents. Person A left their stuff in their house while Person B was also there. Person B leaves and Person A’s property is missing. Person A did not see Person B take it. Person B probably took it, but there is not enough evidence to name Person B as the suspect.

In other cases, the suspect description is so generic and cameras captured barely usable footage that there is little hope of actually identifying the offender. Even more common is that someone did see who did it, but refuses to cooperate with the police.

Even if an incident gets all the way to identifying the suspect, sometimes the responsibility of filing charges against that suspect falls upon the victim. This is true in cases such as a destruction of property, common assault (not domestic), larceny, and trespassing. In many cases, particularly domestic incidents, the victim refuses to show up for court or file for a protective order and then get angry at responding officers for “not doing anything.”

>Ivan Bates says that he's going to get cops enforcing traffic laws and squeegee statutes. Is this realistic, or is he "pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining"?

Maybe - it depends on how such a program is implemented. Mosby made a public statement and listed which crimes her office would decline to prosecute. Simply being able to enforce those named crimes would likely have a positive effect on enforcement. Quality of life crimes such as disorderly conduct, loitering, littering, spitting, etc. are generally not prosecuted and those types of charges can be useful tools to keep dealers off of corners. The problem with QOL crimes is that they are too easy to overuse and can lead to overzealous enforcement.

I’m not sure how the SAO would be able to increase traffic enforcement. There is no standing order to write traffic tickets and any such order would likely run afoul of laws against quotas; specifically Maryland PS § 3-504. I don’t see how the department could force officers to pull over more cars and issue more citations.

As for squeegee statutes - there is already a city code which prohibits squeegee behavior, Article 19 § 47-4 (4), but if the States Attorney’s Office declines to charge this crime, then it does not seem to be worth risking a foot chase in traffic and a use of force to enforce it. The question would still remain even if it were being prosecuted: Is it worth you or the suspect getting hit by a car or getting injured in a use of force for squeegeeing?

>What does the average day and average week look like on patrol?

It varies a lot by shift, by day of the week, and by season.

Midnights may get calls from 2300h - 0300h, but then the volume goes to almost zero. Day work doesn’t usually get calls until 1000h. Swing shift is almost always busy.

Peak crimes is usually on Friday and Saturday. Sunday is usually dead. Call volume peaks in the summer and dies down significantly in the winter.


EthanSayfo t1_iubtu7k wrote

>In addition to the volume of critical incidents BPD officers will respond to, they will also be immersed in the narcotics trade.

Based on what we've learned about the GTTF, this certainly seems to be an accurate statement...


Vjornaxx t1_iucozgt wrote

GTTF is something that BPD does not shy away from. The officers that were involved and their conduct are used as case studies in the academy. Every trainee that hits the streets has GTTF as a reminder of what happens to them if they do things the wrong way.


EthanSayfo t1_iucwynh wrote

That’s honestly good to hear, but here’s a question: Was GTTF the underlying disease, or just a symptom?

Please bear with the public who thinks that maybe just maybe, it was more of a symptom. We all know how much looking the other way happens, and how this culture allowed GTTF to happen.

I for one have a difficult time believing it’s all just been sorted out, because the GTTF got busted (long, long after it should have been noticed and put down).

With that said, as a community I feel we do need to be open to a BPD that can genuinely improve (and here’s a note: the public does NOT overwhelmingly feel this process is complete — not by a long shot).

But this notion that everything in BPD is just all sorted out and squeaky-clean at this point? Going to take more than some overtime community engagement on Reddit to have most of us convinced.

We eagerly await the day when we actually are, as the city needs a healthy and productive police force.


Vjornaxx t1_iud6z7h wrote

The opinion of the public at large is going to be slow to change and that is largely due to the fact that police don’t interact with as many lawful citizens as we do with citizens with a long history of criminal involvement. The stories that news outlets choose to publish rarely cover the gun, drug, or domestic arrests we make every day - and it is our conduct on those incidents that establishes our reputation with the people we interact with the most.

I cannot speak for all officers, but I know that my conduct on those types of incidents has earned me a reputation of being fair. I know that I work hard to show trainees that earning a reputation on the street for being fair makes everyone’s lives easier. I know that at least at the patrol level, the cultural changes that have taken place within the department have been significant. But cultural shifts take time to fully set in and one of the side benefits of being understaffed is that there is a lot of new blood coming out of the academy who are learning how to police the modern way.

BPD still has a lot of work to do to earn trust from the public at large. But I think that the public simply does not see the things that might sway their opinions. The public does not see the daily interactions we have with our “regulars.” The public does not seem to know or does not seem to care about the training that BPD puts its officers through. The public attributes a large amount or issues with the city to the police, even when the issues are outside of police control.

So yes, there is work to be done. Yes, the public still isn’t 100% on board with BPD. But I know that on my post and in my sector, the public wants us there. The community members feel comfortable enough with me to walk up to me and talk about their issues. It’s only the dealers on the corner who don’t want me around - and they may not like what I do, but they have never accused me of being unfair.


EthanSayfo t1_iudhxyf wrote

Listen, I appreciate your thoughtful response, and acknowledgement that there is still work to be done.

I absolutely respect the police of the city who do the hard work day in and day out, and do it without breaking the law themselves. Please know that 95%+ of the community wants BPD to be the best possible version of itself.


PrussianTrollFarm t1_iuacsbv wrote

I could be wrong here (not a cop), but I’ve always heard that the BPD academy is basically the only one in the state that issues credentials graduates really can’t take anywhere else.

Police academies are generally feeders into their sponsoring agencies, but cadets who choose to pay their own tuition can apply to other departments once they graduate. You go to the MSP academy, BCPD academy, etc you can get hired by any department in the state. BPD academy graduates though are effectively considered non-credentialed by other agencies in the state. Maybe after a few years on the force they can go elsewhere; I dunno, not a cop. From what I’ve heard though their freshly graduated cadets are locked into the BPD because nobody else will touch them.


AW5542 t1_iuaftez wrote

That’s not true. It’s the same state certification as any other MD local department. BPD officers lateral to other Maryland departments all the time. Just cant lateral to MSP.


PrussianTrollFarm t1_iuanyrs wrote

I stand corrected, and I know why: the conversations I’m (mis)remembering were with a young guy who was looking to join the MSP after college and then police academy.


Vjornaxx t1_iudr1b4 wrote

MSP doesn’t do laterals. Every trooper goes through their full academy and they are one of the only academies in Maryland that is a live in academy.

A lot of guys with time on aren’t too keen on going through another academy unless they have to, especially if they have to live there for months. It means time away from family, dealing with a petty pseudo-boot camp atmosphere, and getting OC’d, tased, and gassed again.


SpookyBanjo t1_iuarool wrote

This is simply untrue. The BPD loses many recent graduates to county agencies. I’ve known many recent city police graduates who lateral to AA county, Harford county, PG county and Baltimore county. If anything, the BPD is merely a stepping stone to outside agencies. It’s just the easiest to get Into because they’re always hiring and the standard is much lower.

The Maryland police training commission is the body that oversees all police training in the state of Maryland. Once a graduate has a MPTC card they can work at just about any agency in the state of Maryland.


dizzy_centrifuge t1_iua8bbb wrote

My cousin always wanted to be a cop in the NYPD. Didn't get selected for the police academy but was told to go to BPD because they'll take anyone. Ended up not doing it and thos was a decade ago but seems like Baltimore has always been desperate for cops


spatialkay t1_iua2o6s wrote

To live in York and subdue the urbanites.


Good200000 t1_iuay8ji wrote

Baltimore is one of a few departments that doesn’t Require college credit or a degree. Every department today is having difficulty recruiting.


Appropriate-Lab-5015 t1_iuatpt0 wrote

They come and do BPD for a few years until spots open up on NY, Suffolk Sherrifs dept, North NJ, Philly suburbs, NJ state police, etc.

It's actually pretty hard to get a in law enforcement job in those areas. Pay is much higher there (base pay; obviously in BPD you can do way more overtime if ypu want bc BPD is short staffed)


Big-Replacement-1516 t1_iubrown wrote

I've heard also that NYPD has a 3 year waitlist from the time you put in an application to when they call you in for testing


BMoreOnTheWater t1_iuergqk wrote

BPD advertises on NYC subways and other transit. Have seen it in person.


iamaxc t1_iuiga3e wrote

Baltimore now is a bit like what NYC was in the 1980s/90s. Some opportunity for guts and glory down here, plus much lower cost of living and easier commuting.