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Xanny t1_it01uxe wrote

Reply to comment by Cunninghams_right in Reddit Democracy by bearjew64

> the taxes have to come from somewhere

Mostly from vacant and underutilized property (and there is a lot of it) now having greater outstanding tax burden. Most of the vacants in Bmore are actually paying their taxes, or they would go to tax sale. There are a lot of properties that have been tax delinquent for so long its not worth buying the tax lien anymore, but they are pretty rare. Basically any property that can be got for under its appraisal value gets its tax leans bought at the annual tax sales.

This happens because these properties represent perverse equity. The city habitually appraises everything below its market rate valuation, largely because the property tax rate is so high, and this means that property you obtain can be mortgaged in the private market for more than the city thinks its worth. Especially if you roll that mortgage, or just use the depreciation from the city against your purchase as a business loss, which a lot of the fake pseudo LLCs in Bmore do all the time with derelect vacants getting lower and lower city appraisals.

I only suggest LVT because 1. these properties would still pay their taxes, but there would be pressure on the owners to offload them to be developed for use rather than just hoarded for their depreciated improvement value. 2. there are a lot of them. 3. current home owners are protected by the homestead tax exemption. 4. the city is awful at actually enforcing fines, penalties, etc and state equity of taxation laws might prevent entirely the levying of fines against certain things (like say, vacant notices). They also put the pressure where you want it - vacants in downtown or well off areas should cost a fortune to keep derelict.

I think we want different things is part of the problem. Baltmore is poised to be a place for milennials seeking urbanism - there are entire blocks of downtown vacant that can be redeveloped, state center has to be replaced, the city should look to rip out 83 past Penn Station in the next decade, MLK needs to stop being a scar cutting off half the city, the road to nowhere needs to go away, etc. The red line should be built, hopefully the green extension and yellow lines too. All these things and more can make Baltimore desirable to live in for a generation that can't afford New York, LA, DC, etc prices but can still have a walkable, bikable, transit oriented city. The complete streets ordinance maybe gives me too much hope.

Does that mean 120 year old 2 story brick townhouses might get leveled for 5+ story apartment buildings? Probably. Does it displace people? Urban renewal has to, and if the city saw that kind of growth it would have the kind of incoming revenues to catch people before they get lost in the wave. The alternative is continued population decline, more vacancy, worse roads, more violence and poverty and desperation. The city got gutted by white flight and the state for a century and Wes Moore ain't great but hes the best shot Bmore has had in a while at turning things around.

But incentives matter. There are reasons Baltimore is unique in the Northeast Corridor for its degree of abandoned property. There are structural things the city can do like an LVT to both grow revenue and promote growth that have proven results around the world. I'm not suggesting an LVT like nobody has done it before. Places like Australia have had it for decades with proven results.

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Cunninghams_right t1_it0qfzq wrote

>Most of the vacants in Bmore are actually paying their taxes

source?

also, how many are going to keep paying when their tax bill goes up 100x? I would wager none, so the city would have to spend years in court and tax sale to take the properties, meanwhile have a fraction of the tax revenue. THEN you have to convince someone to buy it with the super-high taxes and build something... except developers already get tax deals in the city and they are still not developing most of those parcels of land anyway... what is someone's motivation to buy and build on a site when the only difference with LVT vs now is that LVT gives them a higher tax bill?

> the city is awful at actually enforcing fines, penalties, etc

that's because they know most won't pay it and it will cost the city a fortune to take over the property and they will never recoup their costs.

>There are reasons Baltimore is unique in the Northeast Corridor for its degree of abandoned property

yeah, crime. it's not the tax structure that is stopping development. property values in neighborhoods that are perceived to be safe. when I first moved the the city, a friend lived next to an abandoned hardware store in fed hill. it sat vacant for at least a decade... then... fed hill/SOBO became known as safe neighborhoods that property values doubled, which caused that hardware store to be replaced with brand new nice houses. it didn't require any special tax structure change, just a perception of safety.

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Xanny t1_it122vz wrote

> so the city would have to spend years in court and tax sale

The city doesn't "spend" a lot on tax sales, its mostly an automated system. The courts only get involved if the owner of a tax lien takes their lien to court after 9 months of non-payment, and then its procedural - nobody will show up on the other side, so the lienholder gets title rights.

Like I said, right now every new property that goes to tax sale gets bid on without fail. Investors are losing a lot of money on tax lien buys, even. There were tax liens on two houses on my block in 2021 that both got bid up to the property appraisal rather than the lien value, and then both liens were paid, so those buying the liens were out tens of thousands each (which are just a business tax expense writeoff for them).

Now to be fair, there is a reason those tax liens are bought at inflated prices, its because someone who can get that 9 month court hearing for title rights doesn't actually become owner of the property, they obtain title rights to it. Which means they can sit on assignment of title forever without ever being responsible for the taxes. They own it, but they aren't responsible for it. This is another broken system that needs revision, but for now investors are definitely buying tax lien property in Baltimore if the lien amount is less than the appraisal.

> it's not the tax structure that is stopping development

There are 10 year old vacant notices still in effect in Downtown. Some of these lots pay hundreds of dollars in property tax in the heart of the city. For damn sure they are being floated in perpetuity thanks to the tax code. Investors love hoarding, and property in Baltmore is cheap and taxes favor them letting it sit and rot, so that is what they do. Yes, there are neighborhoods where violence keeps investment out, but plenty of the city is not that bad yet still is plagued by persistent vacancy.

Some of my favorites are 37-41 W Preston St. Huge commercial office zoned buildings, one vacant since the 90s and the other for a decade, and the church across the street owns and pays their taxes. But the windows are rotted and the buildings have gone unused for forever. The church probably holds them in trust, but the fact thats even happening despite them being prime commercial real estate in the middle of Midtown right by Penn Station highlights the problem.

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Cunninghams_right t1_it13y4o wrote

you're focusing on the microcosm of problem that are solved by LVT and ignoring the problems created. meanwhile, the city could absolutely pass ordinances so places like 37-41W Preston get fined up the wazoo and could solve that problem if they wanted.

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Xanny t1_it15uuf wrote

What problems are created, again? As we already discussed the homestead tax exemption in MD already protects current residents from seeing huge upswings in property tax, and you already claimed and I rebutted that vacants don't pay taxes or that nobody buys tax defunct property

The city could pass a piecemeal of ordinances to address this, or it could just reform the tax code - something people have been hankering for for years, anyway - in a way that adds revenue and creates positive rather than perverse incentives (atm, improving your property makes you pay more in taxes, and at such high property tax rates as Bmore city has, it means you are pressured to make your property minimally functional for your needs to avoid paying more taxes).

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Cunninghams_right t1_it2uomt wrote

you rebutted that people buy tax defunct property but have not shown that they would do so if such properties were required to bare the majority of the city's tax burden.

it is also not true that people stop improving houses to avoid taxes. look at the renovated houses in wealthier neighborhoods like roland park or bolton hill. people renovate those and make them amazing.

you're hand waving away all the problems.

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