How to spot a bad flip

Submitted by HighlightInternal633 t3_ye263l in baltimore

Okay, so for context I'm 29 and my husband and I have been looking to buy a rowhouse in Bmore since he's from the area and it's way more affordable than where we're living. It's our first time buying. I got really excited about the prices (our budget is <210k and we're NOT looking in the fells points fed hill etc neighborhoods, so there's plenty options). But the more I look at houses and read horror stories of bad flips, I'm starting to talk myself out of buying for fear of ending up in a situation of having to dish out thousands we don't have to repair major issues. I'm thinking throwing money away on rent for a while longer is easier than figuring out how to spot a bad/poorly done flip and risking this, but idk.

I've read some older threads here with some helpful tips, mostly getting a good inspector. But even then they don't always catch issues. I don't mind getting something with a good foundation but not as "nice" as these fancy cheap flips and doing some repairs myself, but stuff like needing a new roof and those super costly repairs worry me, as initially we'll be on a tight budget after using most of our savings on the whole buying process. It'd be nice to only have to dish out initially for cosmetic upgrades or new appliances, rather than fixing leaks and plumbing/electrical issues etc.

So I'm open to advice on how to spot and avoid bad flips, suggestions on finding houses that aren't necessarily freshly renovated but have been lived in for a few years already (seems impossible in my budget), or a reality check if we're just not financially ready to buy a 100 yr old rowhouse. Thanks so much in advance!!

Edit to add: I've seen a lot of these clearly flipped houses have the same dark blue paint on the kitchen cabinets doors etc, is this the same developer and is it a bad sign? They should make it less obvious LOL

Also: ideally I'd buy something that needs some TLC but has a solid foundation and doesn't need immediate big repairs. I was actually looking forward to making cosmetic changes to the house I end up with and don't mind fixing small issues. I don't need a fancy move-in ready house. The problem is I can't find that in-between, it's either that or a vacant home that needs new roofing, HVAC/furnace, electrical plumbing etc a lot of upfront costly fixes I can't afford right now. But if there does exist an in-between I'm ALL ears!!

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Animanialmanac t1_itwg5oz wrote

You can look up any city address on Open Baltimore 311 request archives. My son and his girlfriend did this, they found one house had previously had a vacant notice, structural damage and basement flooding. The inspector never found anything related to that history. I know from experience once a house floods there is a lifelong need for monitoring and repair.

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planetarylaw t1_itwzomg wrote

This reminds me, when I was house hunting several years ago I saw SO MANY houses that had very obviously been flooded. You could smell the mold and/or bleach. I don't know if that's just because of my tight budget or what but I was blown away at the sheer number of houses in the area with severe water damage. I just did not expect that here.

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Animanialmanac t1_itxcdvr wrote

There is a problem with the city sewage pipes that pushes water back into houses, usually the basement. That’s what happened in my neighborhood. I used grant money from the neighborhood association to fix it but I know some rental properties didn’t do the repair installation, so the landlord relies on the tenant to deal with it. I also know multiple houses where the owners used their grant money to move away, they fixed their old house enough to sell but didn’t completely prevent the floods. This leaves many houses with mold, sewage leaks, and some become abandoned. It’s a tough situation, two homes on my block are empty now, the combination of flooding from the sewage pipes, increased crime, increased truck traffic makes it hard to attract new buyers when the old homeowners sell.

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20ooo t1_itztfa8 wrote

Hi, could you tell me how to navigate to the part of the Open Baltimore website where I can request 311 archives?

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Animanialmanac t1_iu0adp3 wrote

I put “311” in the search bar, and click the one with the year I want. A spreadsheet comes up that you can filter for your address. I use the one with the most recent data to see what’s going on with pot holes and downed trees in my block. https://data.baltimorecity.gov/datasets/e068dbf331cd4782b3248f75a88e2876

I think maybe I wrote it confusingly in my first comment. You are looking through the “311 request” archives, that’s what it’s called. You don’t request anything.

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Not_Really_Famous t1_itw8rth wrote

A good inspector should and will always catch a “bad flip”

Edit: Be sure to use an independent inspector, not the one that your agents recommends

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HighlightInternal633 OP t1_itw9a87 wrote

Thanks! My agent keeps saying her inspector is great but I'm gonna take your advice. Better safe than sorry.

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politics_user t1_itwf0i2 wrote

My agents inspector sucked. Said roof was in great shape—a few leaks and a total roof replacement was needed 6 months later. Missed some basic electrical issues. Missed some basic window flashing issues. Missed an essentially broke sump pump/fucked sump pit issue.

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maofx t1_itwgmzk wrote

That sucks- My agents inspector was great, but I also looked up reviews prior to booking and saw that he was pretty reputable... kinda hit and miss, I guess.

there is no guarantee that an independently chosen inspector will catch everything as well...

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politics_user t1_itwjvue wrote

Yeah. It’s my fault. If I wanted, I could have gotten an actual roofer out there or could have picked a better reviewer inspector. It’s funny the stupid small stuff he found but how he whiffed on some of the bigger stuff.

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Cunninghams_right t1_itwfs78 wrote

generally, you can tell what is a cheap flip in the city because they will use the cheapest/builder-grade materials for everything. light fixtures, kitchen flooring, siding if there is any. some things you can look at the finishing, like trim and edges of flooring to see if it is done well. laminate floors in the kitchen can either be good or crappy, depending on whether they went with the cheap stuff or not.

avoid tiled floor showers as they will leak if not done right. if the house is really well done with higher than builder-grade stuff, then I would be less worried. don't be wowed by fancy Jacuzzi tubs. it might be nice, but it's not a sign of a high-quality remodel because they're actually not much more expensive than a regular tub.

check the HVAC to see if it is newish. ducting is hard to do correctly, so if it looks like someone cut corners in places, chances are your house will heat/cool unevenly because of poor duct design. personally, I hate ducted heat/AC and think no old house should ever have it retrofitted, but it's not necessarily a problem

the roof is a big one. if they replaced the roof, you're probably in good shape. if they made everything else nice but left the roof alone, they may have been really pinching pennies.

I guess the short version is: if it looks like a house in the suburbs on the inside, it's probably a crappy flip. a good remodel will accentuate the 100 year old architecture, not hide it behind fiber-board and plastic trim.

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yeaughourdt t1_itwnv9j wrote

One big thing to watch out for is to not buy anything with a freshly finished basement that doesn't have a french drain (aka perimeter drain) because that carpet and drywall could be going in a dumpster real fast once the hydrostatic pressure from our clay soils forces water through the walls after a big rain.

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HighlightInternal633 OP t1_itwq0an wrote

Needed to know this, thank you so much!

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PutVegetable8415 t1_iu243qk wrote

To add to this: attics are generally not supposed to be livable spaces. The insulation should be on the floor of the attic and they should be properly vented to avoid heat build ups in the summer.

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catbirdbutt t1_itxfit6 wrote

You might want to ask some neighbors. Since the pandemic started, we've walked past many flips (good/bad) in our travels around the neighborhood, including a few that are slowly rotting after a series of "stop work" permit violations. We'd be happy to give anyone a heads up, if they asked.

Side note: We're of extremely modest income and were only able to afford a house (Summer 2019) by renovating/purchasing it with the Healthy Neighrborhoods program. We did 95% of the work ourselves and it was a wild/traumatizing/worthwhile experience to gut and essentially remake our house. We will always have the benefit of knowing every part of our home down to the frame and we know the quality of the work that went into building it back up. We took no shortcuts and have the therapy co-pays to show for it.

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HighlightInternal633 OP t1_itxva3a wrote

Love this so much. You gave me some hope! Thank you!!!

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YoYoMoMa t1_itwia0v wrote

Not sure you are going to get many good flips at that price, but you could always contact the company that did the work and ask if they offer insurance you can purchase.

I bought mine through MK and they offer two years. Seemed like a good sign and so far (KNOCK ON ALL THE FUCKING WOOD) the place has been great.

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yeaughourdt t1_itwn9uo wrote

"Knock on all the fucking wood" is a good piece of advice when evaluating a flip. Knock on everything. I ended up buying a house with one wall that doesn't seem to have any studs in it and I have no idea how it stays up, but it does.

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UptownHiFi t1_itwygfw wrote

You can visit baltimorehousing.org and do an existing permits search to see if permits were issued for upgrades, etc.

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ScootyHoofdorp t1_itzdbfa wrote

Not to scare you away from buying, but builders can always hide things. I bought a rowhouse earlier this year, and the inspector didn't find anything major. Well, a few months in, the floorboards in the kitchen started to buckle. After some investigation, we found out that the flippers had built an addition on the back end of the house, and put the framing of the floor directly in contact with wet ground. All of the wood is rotting. It's a code violation. Based on the documentation I got from the city, it appears to me that the builders were able to close up the floor without letting the housing inspector see what they'd done. Of course, the construction was approved. There are some things an inspector just can't see.

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HighlightInternal633 OP t1_itzye6t wrote

Oh noo. I'm sorry this is happening to you. Thank you for the heads up and best of luck!

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doingoodnhappy t1_itzgmp3 wrote

I believe a 203k loan would allow you to check all of your boxes. A 203k loan is an FHA loan, with an FHA sized down payment, that includes the cost of major repairs in the mortgage.

The 203k program is similar to the Healthy Neighborhoods program except it is a federal program and applies anywhere.

How it works, generally speaking, is you find a house that wouldn't qualify for conventional financing because of at least 1 major problem. For example, you find a house but it needs a new HVAC system and windows. The 203k loan will include money for those repairs and any other repairs needed to bring the house into code compliance.

The money for the repairs is held in escrow until each job is finished. This eliminates expensive financing since the repairs are part of your mortgage.

This would eliminate your getting a crappy flip and widen the pool of potential houses.

Plus, the cosmetics would be up to you so you can make your new house into your home.

On a side note, I noticed someone had mentioned the problem of sewage backing up into basements in the city. It is a lot easier, and maybe cheaper, to be proactive and prevent a backup, than to clean one up if you have to hire a company to do it. The fix involves installing a back check valve in your sewer line. I believe they can be installed on your main sewer line but are mainly installed on pipes connected to toilets, laundry tubs etc. in the basement.

Happy hunting and good luck!

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Ellisd1986 t1_itwg6cy wrote

Ive seen a lot of really bad flips in the baltimore area. some horror stories. i would recommend hiring an inspector. Do you have any friends in the building trades?

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HighlightInternal633 OP t1_itwgdqn wrote

Unfortunately I don't. I'm so scared of ending up with a terrible flip but I don't have any connections to help me figure any of it out

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Bmore_sunny t1_iu1t1r4 wrote

If you need a good realtor, dm me. I know someone with construction experience that is a realtor. Helped me avoid getting my hopes up over certain houses in my search, and avoid hiring inspectors before I was ready.

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NeatLeft t1_itwz9hj wrote

Stay AWAY away CR of Maryland!!!

They literally just slap Band-Aids on heavily damaged/rundown properties and they do not fix the underlying issues such as sinking floors and other major structural issues. I am a real estate photographer in the DMV and I see a lot of flips throughout Baltimore, and their work is straight up dangerous!

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HighlightInternal633 OP t1_itwzfz1 wrote

Oh my god, Thanks for the info!! I'm still figuring out how to tell who was the developer bc some don't say on the listing, do you know where I can find that info?

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NeatLeft t1_itwzsb3 wrote

For that you would need to contact the real estate agent who is representing the property. They have to disclose who the contractor was if you ask.

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Hot_Cut_815 t1_itxyjke wrote

I saw some horrible flips when looking. One kitchen drawer couldn’t even open all but three inches because they poorly planned placement of cabinets.

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BrunettexAmbition t1_ity93b8 wrote

Most of my way of telling a bad flip came from years of renting. What are all those cheap things landlords do that are annoying. Certain appliances that you find in large rental company properties and individual properties. Smells both good or bad. There should be no need to light all these candles unless you’re hiding something. Touch everything. Does the paint feel like quality paint or a finger nail could take it off? Just inspect things and ask questions. Try to look past the staging, you’re not buying the stuff and they’re trying to sell a product. Also, you can ask a seller to provide dates for when things were done. I bought a place (not a flip) and they sellers listed new roof last year, HVAC in 20XX, etc. I could tell the water heater was older because it doesn’t have that extra price but that’s fine I’ll use it till it breaks then it’s time for unlimited hot water 🥳🧖🏻‍♀️.

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sxswnxnw t1_itx7loh wrote

Considering so many homes in Baltimore are going to be old, I think a good flip balances the old and the new. As someone said, if it looks like a completely new suburban house inside, beware. But if they maybe refinished the original floors instead of putting down laminate or vinyl, that's a good sign. Maybe they updated the kitchen, but kept the bathroom looking kinda vintage. I look for uncarpeted basements: like I will not buy a house with carpet in the basement because it seems a bit irrational? But I also look for things like this in homes that are occupied.

When I was looking at homes that were flipped, my priorities were walking all of the floors from corner to corner, going in the basement to see what it looked and smelled like, whether the house made sense. The bad flips often had flooring issues, or basements that are overdone with carpet at one extreme or either zero attention at the other. Houses with very weird modern lighting or coffered ceilings were also red flags. Like they're trying to keep your eyes up and distracted for a reason imo.

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PutVegetable8415 t1_iu23v05 wrote

This is based on my limited experience but I think houses that haven't been sold in a while and don't have huge price jumps between sales are less likely to be flips. You can check past proprety sales on Zillow/redfin and past assessed values on SDAT.

Owning a home costs money. You should be putting away some amount of cash each month for the inevitable repairs and also try to be preventative about fixing issues before they become serious emergencies.

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