People in Baltimore: "yea of course, that's why they did it"

And I think everyone should recognize that ALL politicians are slime, Baltimore's maybe more slimy than the average, but politicians are not heros.

It looks as though Nick Mosby put forward a bill for elected officials to qualify for a lifetime pension after serving 8 years in city government. This was after voters overwhelmingly voted for 8 year term limits for elected officials.

City council members voted 8-5 to pass the bill and it heads Mayor Scott to sign into law or veto.

> The group People for Elected Accountability and Civic Engagement described the bill as "brazen greed, corruption, and self-serving."

It's cool as hell [edit: /s] that the Republican candidate for CC Pres in 2020 is now a nonpartisan group to be quoted in news articles.

Fair criticism, but do you disagree?

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Honestly, do we really need the City Council?

Soooo at this point only really rich people will be able to serve in the local office. I’m sure term limits on the legislative branch and the fucking comptroller will have positive affects on the city /s.

Baltimore loves taking one step forward and then 10 steps backwards.

Yes

Most of it? No. Seems like Odette Ramos does a lot to help locals, though, even outside her district.

I was about to say “only really rich people” is ridiculous but I didn’t realize until now that most of them only get 76k, which is trash pay in Baltimore for that sort of position. Nick Mosby, however, gets $131k, and it appears that he gets a vehicle leased by the city for personal use.

Yuuuuup - welcome to the actual truth to term limits and limiting office pensions! People get won over by “oh term limits are good, gets rid of the bad ones quicker!” and “this is so corrupt!” but then they forget about what the actual macro impact is.

Similarly why you should never take at face value folks who push for Congress to not get pay during a government shutdown: it just puts pressure on lower income & lower wealth Congresspeople to break while those who are independently wealthy can afford to wait it out.

It really isn’t corrupt, it’s simple logic. Voters passed term limits, the consequence of that is that virtually nobody will then qualify for pensions per the current formula.

They should either (1) get rid of the term limits or (2) amend the pension to kick in after 8 years but be either lower paying or proportional in some manner.

What is corrupt, though, is the Sinclair scheme behind all of these changes to City government and the impact it’ll have.

And their groups statement is correct

sorry, no - there are many great politicians out there.

Would you prefer to have an executive with functionally unchecked power?

We can have a serious conversation about the perceptions and realities of the current iteration of the City Council, but the body has a very real purpose.

Except for the ones that you like huh?

Yes? A city government is usually recommended. What else do you have in mind?

Agree by and large, but re: (2) this bill doesn't change the pension payout, just when people become eligible for it.

mosby trying to cast this as the will of the voters barely even rises to the level of a non seqitur.

Such a lazy opinion

I would still argue it’s better than giving former officer holders absolutely no pension. It also might not be legal for them to amend the size of their own pensions - I know for Congress, when they change their pay rates, it takes effect for the next Congress not the current.

Plus, what’s being missing in all the analysis here on Reddit is it’s changing it from 12 years to 8 years. It’s a reduction of a single term, and aligns with the new term limits.

Overall, it’s people freaking out over something that’s logical and not super corrupt, and that freak out only plays into the hands of those trying to further fuck up our government.

Also it should be noted that’s it’s reducing the years served from 12 to 8.

It’s reducing the years served from 12 to 8 years, which aligns with the term limits that that group endorsed. How is that “brazen greed, corruption, and self-serving”?

It is partially the will of the people - it’s in reaction to the term limits referendum

you're delusional if you think a single person voted the way they did so nick mosby can enhance his own retirement benefits.

No, I’m just reading the article. The bill reduces years served from 12 years to 8 to align with the new term limits.

nobody anywhere asked for enhanced retirement benefits, if the vesting requirements weren't touched for 50 years not a single voter would care, it's unheard of for a legislature to raise their own benefits without having to stand for reelection to receive them. not sure why you're riding nick mobsy's nards on this but you look comical.

Term limits do not prevent them from holding a different office. They could still easily serve the city for 20 years and earn a pension.

Edit: grammar

I was one of the ones screaming the nerve of them too.I'm not a fan,but Moseby has a point.

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I voted for term limits and what I’d prefer is 2 terms with a new official for the 3rd. During the 4th term the previous incumbent can win his seat back now that the city has a true comp. With this new head to head you can earn your pension.

If mosby really cared what the people think of his pensions he’d would ask the people instead of voting to enrich his colleagues with a rushed bill.

You may disagree but this notion that mosby is assuming this is what the people who want term limits wants is purposefully dishonest. I get it, you don’t like term limits which is all the more reason you shouldn’t interpret the intentions of the majority who do.

Well that makes sense right? Otherwise you'd basically just remove pensions altogether

I personally don't think that serving 8 years in a single city elected office entitles you to a lifelong pension. Get rid of it all together.

Mayor Scott has vetoed the bill

council members aren't full time (however the president is) - one reason for the salary difference. Some council members have 2 jobs.

What a dumb question. That's how the city's government is structured. Yes, we need a city council unless there are major foundational changes.

For comparison, state employees have to serve 10 years to get a pension and it's not worth very much with only 10 years.

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That's not really correct. The actual 8 year limit isn't a lifetime limit. It's limited to 8 years in any 12 year period. So do 8 years, fuck off and do some charity work for 4 years, then come back for another term as an official to get that pension if you really want it.

Source: https://elections.maryland.gov/elections/2022/general_results/gen_qtext_2022_C_19.html

Yeah, I have no idea how much actual time the job takes. I figured it wasn’t full time

Which members have other jobs?

Would QK apply to any current members when it comes to the 12 year pension? The latest?

Can we please stop with the narrative that Baltimore city voters are too stupid to make autonomous choices and only voted for term limits because Sinclair duped us into it? There is and has been broad support for term limits nationwide for a long time, and even without Sinclair dropping a dime on this I’m sure it would’ve still passed.

You’re also just incorrect - the councilman can still get pensions, they just have to do 4 more years working for the state in another position, and if the pension is that valuable, it shouldn’t be that hard for a council member from the state’s largest city to find a state job. They’re also more than welcome to contribute to a 401k like the rest of us, especially given that they make what is likely a top 1% percentile of income in this city. I cannot think of a single other job outside of the president where 8 years qualifies you to be paid by the taxpayers for the rest of your life

But they can’t though. The pension is for elected office and they’re honestly not that many elected offices. Plus with this bill they can only run twice in 12 years. So essentially no one is getting a pension.

Again this is a horrible bill that will not solve the problem of corruption in Baltimore politics. Instead it will just make it worse.

I won’t stop the narrative because I kind of believe it. You kind of admit and every analysis admits alit as well. Every single amendment that has come up to a vote for the past 25 years or so has been “yes”. I still think that term limits (except for the executive branch) is not a good idea and creates new and worse problems.

And the pension is for elected positions only. So it not that easy. The only people running now will be those who are wealthy enough to not worry about saving for a retirement.

You make it sound so fucking easy.

Yea it's an odd stance that many people have. Either Baltimore voters are too dumb to make wise choices (Sinclair duped them view), or the people are to dumb to vote for "good" politicians (the white suburban view)

I personally was against term limits, but being pro-self determination can lead to these results.

Well, it's not easy at all when you're a corrupt scumbag like every Baltimore politician proves to be time after time. "Maybe the next one will be better" - Idiot Baltimore voters

Again, have you ever heard of a 401k? That is absolutely absurd to say they have no options for retirement savings. Secondly, 82% of Americans want term limits. Has Sinclair suddenly hypnotized 200+ million Americans, or is it more likely that it’s a pretty bipartisan opinion that politicians in a democracy should not have unlimited durations of political power?

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/download/tomboulides-testimony

What do you mean by lifelong pension? Doesn’t the payout not happen until they are like 60 or something?