Submitted by ballzdeep499 t3_zhc19h in baltimore

Two parts here,

I want to repoint the back of my rowhome, do you have to pull permits for that?

Second I want to pull the formstone off of the front. Do I need permits for the formstone removal and the repointing. Also if anyone has any idea how much formstone removal costs it would be amazing.

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S-Kunst t1_iznfjm1 wrote

For the conservation of your home, please make sure your contractor is using lime mortar, or at least "N" mortar, which is the next harder pre-made mortar mixes. Most contractors do not and they use a mortar mix with a high Portland cement content.

Before the 20th century most masonry mortar was a "quick lime" & sand mix. It never gets extremely hard or brittle. 19th century Baltimore bricks are not hard as they were not fired in a high temp kiln. This is esp true for days when they used wood or charcoal for the fire. The result is when the bricks and mortar wet, with weather, then freeze, the Portland cement mortar does not move nor does it absorb moisture, so the water in the brick freezes and the brick crumbles.

Item 2 is the use of machines to cut out the old mortar. For the side and back of a row house they can be used with care, but the 1/8" thick facade mortar joint will be cut out and a wider gap will be seen, as well as all the mistakes in cutting with a hand held grinder. Your facade is a weak place on the house. To get that very uniform look, the original facade has no bricks turned front -back showing the narrow end to the street. This means the front row of bricks is not tied to the row behind them. When the mortar joint fails water gets in and with freezing part of the facade can fall off.

I am re-pointing the mortar joints in my basement, and have spent time looking at youtube clips about the proper manner to repoint old lime mortar. It is slow and I do about a 3' square before I tire of it. But the effort is well worth the learning curve.

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imperaman t1_izp10n5 wrote

Can you recommend any youtube videos on repointing in particular? I'm going to repoint my basement (c. 1850) in the next few months using mortar from limeworks.us. Many of the bricks themselves are also disintegrating, so I'm trying to decide whether to source old bricks or use one of the other products from limeworks.

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S-Kunst t1_izp6ais wrote

Great. Limeworks. I have found lime mortar (less the sand) in Home Depots, but its hit or miss who is carrying it. Also Belair building supply sometimes has it.

I find lime mortar a little more difficult to work with than Portland, but not much. The trick is to have the moisture content as low as possible. Just enough that the stuff sticks together when you squeeze a small hand full, not too much that it squirts out of the cracks between your fingers. The tipping point between too dry & too wet is very narrow.

Many of the Youtube videos I have watched no longer are available. One series is by an Irish guy at GMT Pointing Specialists LTD. He has several on the different aspects of lime mortar pointing. Yous the keywords "lime mortar pointing" to search. Some guys are great at showing & explaining some chatter too much or wiggle the camera.

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Cleopatra_bones t1_izlxyd2 wrote

Never repointed, but have been a contractor. Anything that involves a scaffold outdoors will need a permit. So if the back of your house needs a mortar refill and touch up on the second story, then yes, you'll need a permit.

A reputable contractor will pull permits for you. You shouldn't have to deal with any bureaucracy if the contractor has an mhic.

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SonofDiomedes t1_iznw47k wrote

MHIC Contractor here. Not interested in your job.

Yes, you need a permit. If you read the regulations, you'll find they are super vague, and seem to say that almost any work requires a permit, which is basically the case. But of course, we live in a failed-state City, so in reality it doesn't work like that at all.

I routinely conduct business that involves plumbing, electrical, structural, HVAC,etc. without a permit, as does every other contractor in the City. The risk that by pulling permits, the City will completely fuck the project is so great that many clients prefer the risk that an inspector will somehow notice that work is under way, and put a stop work on us. I can't tell you how many interior-only jobs get permitted, but it's a tiny f'n fraction of what goes on. Basically the only time you get the City's attention on an interior job is the same way almost all other regulations get enforced in the City: solely by complaint. It's ludicrous how much power a shitfuck neighbor has in this town. My contracts for clients who don't want to pull permits state that the homeowner will pull permits according to local regulations etc, and that if a project is stopped due to failure to permit, I will cease work, remove all tools, and be paid for work to date, returning to the site only once permits have been worked out. This has never happened.

Exterior work however is a different ball game. Inspectors can see that work is under way as they drive around, and certainly do apply stop work orders to sites that don't have permits. So, for anything outside, I always pull a permit. A simple fence that could be a one day job? Permit, with the delays and costs that two inspections will introduce to the project. Window replacement--the inspectors literally don't enter the property to even look at the window, and there's nothing to actually inspect, City just gets their permit money and inspector hands you the final sticker--permit. I'm not interested in getting stop work orders so when it's exterior work, I get the permit.

In order to re-point, and remove formstone (then repoint what you uncover), you'll have to set up scaffolding. This isn't ladder work. And it's super messy...you'll be sending a plume of mortar dust into the air. It's all far too obvious to attempt without a permit.

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Accurate-Lecture7473 t1_izqshz8 wrote

Who should I call to repoint my rowhome. I want licensed and insured, not Uncle Donny.

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ballzdeep499 OP t1_izqsxcw wrote

Unfortunately I haven’t started actually looking for contractors yet. If you find a good one that offers a reasonable rate please let me know

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