Rent price fixing in Baltimore

Submitted by TitsMageesVacation t3_zhcoo2 in baltimore

I am a multi year resident at a nice, but poorly run high rise building downtown. The concierge has become a joke, the garage has security issues, and the amenities are meh. Despite this, they just hit me with another rent increase, so I decided to shop around.

Long story short, I went to another high rise to look at apartments. In the course of converstaion, the very nice, but clearly inexperienced, leasing agent asked me where I was currently living, and I told her the name of my building. She said she knew it well, and in fact had just spoken to them yesterday. I asked her why, and she openly offered that they are competitors but they all talk about their pricing.

Uh, did she just admit to price fixing? These are big commercial landlords, and I know (now) there is a class action suit in other states regarding the use of RealPage in regards to price fixing, but is this not illegal in Maryland?

It would at the very least explain how landlords are keeping rent prices so high in Baltimore.

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RoenTan t1_izlmwpm wrote

If the building management is bozzuto —- lmk…

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caro822 t1_izmbm9f wrote

It doesn’t matter who it was. I promise. Buzzuto is doing this. Avalon is doing this. WPM is doing this. Morgan is doing this. And Greystar and Monument and PMC and Southern and avenue5. They are all setting prices.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izln4tx wrote

It was not but I’m now curious as to why you asked!

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RoenTan t1_izlnurj wrote

Ive lived in a few high end apartments managed by bozzuto in baltimore - generally good but with mixed feelings. I would cross post into r/realtors for better responses

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caro822 t1_izmablo wrote

Source: Am an APM at an ok high rise in central Baltimore. Yes and no. We all do market surveys to see what other people are offering/what the specials are etc… But honestly, we just call because we’re too lazy to look on the websites.

Market Surveys used to be used for “competitive pricing” but we’re all switching to systems like Rent Max that get the data of what the apartments are going for every day and set our prices. So we’re not price fixing anymore, it’s a large, billion dollar multi-national corporation that does it for us. One of the big companies that does this is also being investigated by an AG because of this shit. This is why apartment prices have gotten so high, because they are changed daily to constantly have the highest possible price (and to price out section 8, but I digress).

Also, we need to “shop” other properties so that we know what our comps are. Like Yes, this property down the street has XYZ but we have ABC. It also is a teaching tool for learning how to lease.

But yeah, since 2019, the cost of the extract same 1 bedroom, with no renovations No nothing, has gone up $300-400. And that’s just in Baltimore city. It’s not much better in the rest of the state from what I’ve heard.

But yes this is all completely legal. And anyplace that isn’t a private landlord is doing this. Apartment companies like Buzzuto/Morgan/Southern/WPM are some of the largest employers and housing developers/landlords in the state. They leave and a lot of money for the date and the politicians pockets are gone.

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ReturnOfSeq t1_izmemm0 wrote

Even though this doesn’t have ‘that personal touch’ it can definitely still be price gouging

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blankitty t1_iznodxm wrote

Yeah seems like they just outsourced it.

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Smokedsoba t1_izp6cvy wrote

He says it himself, they price fix but its the corporations doing it not a private landlord. This is America baby, donate 25-100k to whom ever is in charge of the local government and have the backing of a foreign bank and you can pretty much do what ever you want.

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cajunrockhound t1_izls9hu wrote

I live downtown and my rent went up $5 dollars but it’s managed by PMC (I know some people here hate them). I have never had issues at my building and I pay $1055 for a very nice 1 br/1 bth off of Calvert and Lombard. I’ve been in the same unit for about 2 years now going on 3. Unfortunately- you have to shop around for parking.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izlzhko wrote

Last year mine went up $400, and they came back for more.

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cajunrockhound t1_izm0e35 wrote

That’s fkn insane. I don’t understand that much of an increase when buildings are struggling to fill vacancies.

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justin774 t1_iznpchl wrote

It's been a major real estate strategy for many years to keep vacancies and increase rent on current residents. Similar to how the DeBeers company only releases a small number of diamonds every year to limit supply in order to manufacturer and artificial demand

When a complex has vacancies, the building makes less money. This difference in money is passed to the residents. Now you might be asking, why raise rent because that will make people not want to fill the vacancies? It's simple, now the property owner is making the same money as before with less tenants. Less tenants means less maintenance and less costs. If anyone fills the vacancies and pays the high rent that is just a bonus to the property managers.

With the high cost of rent, it sometimes ensures higher quality renters who make more money and are more likely to pay on time. This is not always the case, and definitely is not the primary driver in rent increases.

TL;DR: Landlords have 0 incentive to fill vacancies since it works out better for them.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izm0ul8 wrote

Our occupancy is high, always has been, and to be fair, it’s an expensive building to begin with, but it still a huge jump, $ and % wise. Unfortunately, there’s no legal cap in MD. That’s the law, I get it, and I will always defend capitalism and supply and demand, but this is collusion.

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EthanSayfo t1_izmhhtc wrote

It's aaaalmost like collusion and price fixing is a logical byproduct of extremist late-stage capitalism, when only small numbers of companies, even duopolies, control almost every industry...

Nah!

Sorry to sound so sarcastic, but we're nuts if we don't think this is going on in many/most industries.

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TheGraby t1_izni7ez wrote

> I will always defend capitalism

☝️ if you're curious about why you're being downvoted 😂

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_iznq9l9 wrote

So? I believe in the free market. A free market does not include collusion.

And frankly I don’t care that I’m being downvoted by some, this isn’t about my ego.

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DrPlatelet t1_izoxmsc wrote

And you stayed? This is Baltimore not NYC

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Smokedsoba t1_izp7ayg wrote

Right? Apartments and row homes for rent aren’t hard to find here just tell your landlord to kick rocks and move across the street.

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caro822 t1_izmajs3 wrote

PMC is a smaller company though. Less resources/less overheard as they are an absentee landlord. Go to anything bigger with amenities and the prices are going to be much higher.

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CaptainObvious110 t1_izm73bb wrote

Wow! That's a pretty good price. You are fortunate to just have a $5 rent increase for sure.

Is it loud over there?

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cajunrockhound t1_iznwgbs wrote

not super loud if you can deal with the influx of conference goers every now and then

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robertbitchum t1_izlr6s3 wrote

The rents change literally day to day. It’s supposedly based on some algorithm but they’re all magically about the same increase/decrease.

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caro822 t1_izmcltu wrote

What we’re told is that the algorithm looks at the occupancy, the tours/traffic/ the applications and what our comps are pricing at and then sets the price Every days.

This is different in the past, where on Monday, everyone would call their comps and get this information and pass it off to the regional managers who would set the prices for the week. Now this is happening on a much larger scale every single day so there’s not a human behind it and the prices can go up 31 times a month instead of 4.

What happened in my last property is that the prices went up $250 over the summer due to the algorithm and my property manager had to contact multiple people to course correct because those prices were affecting our renewals. Moral of the story is the prices should have never been that high, but because of some math equations many people were paying $200-300 more than their neighbors for the exact same apartment.

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robertbitchum t1_izmg3vr wrote

Yeah it happened to me. Waited a week to sign and am paying more than I would have ☹️.

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caro822 t1_izmgkja wrote

Yep. My SIL ended up paying an extra $50 a month because of this. Like it’s my job but if you really like a place, it’s in your best interest to apply that day even if you withdraw later because that price won’t be there later.

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zk2997 t1_izmfloo wrote

I live in a complex like this and just went though my renewal this past week.

I was tracking the availability of units every day for a few weeks just to get an idea of what I was going to have to pay. There’s two things I noticed.

  1. They quoted me around 5% higher than their own market rate for an identical unit (and that’s not even including their “first month free!” promos for new residents only and whatnot). I brought this up to them to negotiate and they apologized for the “mistake” and offered to knock it down a bit. I wonder how many people just sign the papers without checking to see what their own unit is current going for?

  2. Sometimes units would just… disappear. And then would be reposted again a few days later. Almost as if to create artificial scarcity/demand. Make it seem like someone just signed a lease in order to manipulate their vacancy rate.

I swear these companies do some really shady stuff.

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caro822 t1_izmil69 wrote

Due to fair housing the second a completed application is put onto an apartment that apartment goes off the market. What happens a lot is, after the app is looked at ( income and rental history verified etc…) they are approved or denied. If they are denied that apartment goes back on the market. Or the applicant changes their mind and cancels the app. Or the current resident changes their mind several times about if they’re leaving. Anyway, that is very common and not happening for the reasons you think.

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zk2997 t1_izmjh4q wrote

That all makes sense, but it’s just not a transparent process regardless if it’s their doing or if it’s strictly legal. It would make more sense if it just said “Pending” like in the real estate market.

Hiding units behind a curtain naturally creates a FOMO because people don’t want to have to spend an extra $100/month if they wait too long to sign.

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caro822 t1_izmjuyc wrote

This is true, but legally, once the application is submitted it isn’t “pending.” The applicant has that apartment until the application is reviewed. Letting others apply or look at the resident who might be a “better” applicant is against fair housing. It’s all to provide protections for protected classes.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izmgbpg wrote

This happened with my renewal last year. When I called them on it they stood their ground and said they don’t have to offer that price to existing tenants, but eventually backed off a little bit. Not much.

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zk2997 t1_izmh8lv wrote

And it makes no sense because they’re losing money by bringing in a new tenant on cheaper rent and first month free. I think they simply upcharge everyone and hope they don’t notice. The idea these companies have is probably that the people living in these complexes near the harbor are well off enough that they can pay whatever and won’t bother anyone over an extra $50/month.

Once I asked to negotiate they immediately threw out a lower number because they knew they had no leverage and I figured them out.

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ReturnOfSeq t1_izmegdb wrote

I don’t know the names but I know there are multiple New York landlords who’ve been buying up property throughout Baltimore, and they’re most likely coordinating pricing

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caro822 t1_izmhxvo wrote

Jared Kushner’s company bought a lot of Property’s. Lots of mid-sized property mgmt cos are just a bunch of rich people buying a portfolio of properties, hire a mgmt company to oversee them, do shitty renovations, jack up the price, then sell 5 years later once they priced out all the old residents and the property needs repairs for their shitty renovations.

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CaptainObvious110 t1_izmjgdm wrote

I wouldn't be surprised if that was happening at all. I do have to admit I never thought of that though.

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Working_Falcon5384 t1_izlk2c2 wrote

Following

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izm3wj6 wrote

I just emailed the attorney general’s office.

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caro822 t1_izmaqds wrote

It’s completely legal what they’re doing. What they’re asking isn’t secret. It’s on their website. It’s in apartments.com. Calling to get the pricing is just a shortcut.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izmb6g3 wrote

No, what’s on the website is the prices they’ve already set, and it’s the pricing you get if you sign that day and move in almost immediately. Most people are looking for something 60 days out, and those prices are not available online. Try it on apartments.com are no availability is shown.

Thanks though!

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caro822 t1_izmefx1 wrote

Also, just an FYI, Baltimore City recently passed a law saying that LLs can’t require more than 30 days notice, vs the 60 most usually required. So availability is now 45-ish days out now vs. the 2+months it was before.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izmeuds wrote

That’s super helpful. Do you know where I can find that info online to show these jackasses?

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caro822 t1_izmgccn wrote

What info specifically? The laws? Those are on the internet. For the pricing? Go onto the property website, and click the thing that says Floor Plans or Availability. Once you’re on a particular apartment you can usually see how different move in dates affect the price. Some have a “pricing calendar.” The day you move into what apartment for however long changes the price. Also the leasing consultant at the property will be able to tell you.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izmgfdj wrote

The new law. I couldn’t find any details online .

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caro822 t1_izmh284 wrote

https://www.peoples-law.org/baltimore-city-rental-and-housing-laws. Under “Termination of Tenancy by Tenant. Law changed over the summer. It wasn’t widely publicized though. Even if you signed a lease that said 60 days, the law overrides that.

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z3mcs t1_iznnt5m wrote

Thank you for all this info! I have half a mind to ask you to make a standalone post alerting people. I did want to ask about this portion of the new lsaw that is listed at the link:

> The tenant and the landlord may agree to a longer period of notice.

The next part after that just talks about having the period of notice be the same for tenants and landlords. But yeah that seems to say that the 60 days would stand if thats what you agreed to. How am I reading it wrong, or what’s the definition or other information that would make it line up with what you’re saying?

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caro822 t1_izo4lzs wrote

So, with the company I personally work with, they told us that the law overrides the lease. This is because, if this goes to the housing court, the judge will side with the law, not the lease. The corporate office knows this, and if you push them, if they’re not stupid, they’ll follow the law.

Most of our policies are based on what will stand in a court vs. what we want to do. Like, my company used to charge $50 for a parking permit that wasn’t returned. But during COVID, the Baltimore judges stopped letting landlords charge for that because, “is a sticker worth $50?” No, it’s worth $.02.

Also, another pro tip, if you’re ever charged for damages, ask for the invoice. If it was done in house (trash removal is a big one) they can’t charge for that anymore. If there isn’t an invoice, you can contest the charge, and you will win.

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z3mcs t1_izohhz5 wrote

Ah, okay. I feel like it would be a fight and the property manager would point to that part in the law

>The tenant and the landlord may agree to a longer period of notice.

And say "You agreed to a longer period of notice". But anyway, thanks for all the useful and informative information you've provided on this topic. Very good to know.

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zk2997 t1_izmi71b wrote

Wow I just signed my renewal lease agreement a few days ago and it explicitly said 60 days.

I believe you but I’m wondering why they haven’t updated the pre-filled contracts yet. That seems like a pretty important detail that should be clarified immediately.

They actually sent me a separate email as well stating that I need to give 60 day notice if I’m not signing.

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caro822 t1_izmish8 wrote

It’s 60 days in the rest of the State. So if you have a Baltimore City address, you have 30 days, anywhere else is 60.

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zk2997 t1_izmiyjn wrote

I’m in the city and my contract that I just signed this week said 60 days. Is it one of those “the law says 30 but we can add onto that within the contract” things?

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caro822 t1_izmjfe1 wrote

Nope. The lease can say whatever it wants. But it doesn’t mean anything if there is a law that directly contradicts it, like in this instance. So basically, if they’re giving you shit about not giving 60 days notice, just refer to the law. If this goes in front of a judge, the property managers case would be thrown out, and really that is the only thing that matters.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izuikhu wrote

you mentioned that the law changed over the summer, but do you know when the eblow became law? My lease states I have to give 60 days but they only have to give 30. If it was more than 10 months ago they had this in my lease illegally.

§8–501.

No written agreement between a landlord and tenant shall provide for a longer notice period to be furnished by the tenant to the landlord in order to terminate the tenancy than that required of the landlord to the tenant in order to terminate the tenancy.

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caro822 t1_izurwze wrote

So, at my job, soon as the law was enacted over the summer, we had it apply to all leases. So even if someone had a lease that said 60 days, we only required 30. Again, my company’s main deal is “what will hold up in court?” If there’s precedence of a judge ruling with the tenant they stop enforcing a rule.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izutf3q wrote

Well I just picked this fight, so fingers crossed.

This has been really helpful for me, I know it would be for a lot of people dealing with these large land lords.

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dwhiz t1_izn9vw7 wrote

My fiancé and I just found a new place to rent after our current (terrible landlord; looking at you CORVUS) slammed us with $100/month “parking fees” out of nowhere when our lease became “month to month.

We gave them our 30 day notice of intent to vacate the property just days after this, and we were told they require 60 days notice to vacate. Would love to know when this changed.

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caro822 t1_iznuogr wrote

New law was enacted over the summer. June maybe. But again, only applies to apartments within Baltimore City. And yes, even if you signed a lease that says 60 days, the new law overrides that.

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dwhiz t1_iznz3bc wrote

Exactly my situation. In Baltimore City and this was just a couple months ago. We move next week (60 day notice)

Had no idea this was a thing, I wish I could point out the law to our current landlord to further tell them how incompetent they are.

We signed a lease that stated 60 days notice, the lease ran out and we were put on month to month and that’s when all of the “well technically you don’t have a lease agreement so we can do whatever we want” started coming from.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izujn07 wrote

I have a good mind to print out this thread and shove it under the door of the 200 plus units in my building.

They would be thrilled if all their tenants were informed. LOL.

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smushedtoast t1_izod1e5 wrote

This is a nation-wide issue; property management companies are using the same software, Yieldstar, to calculate pricing, and the algorithm is creating a feedback loop. It’s price-fixing.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izodjbe wrote

Several large landlords are included in a class action suit in regards to the use of RealPage, a pricing application. RealPage has also been included in that suit.

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sxswnxnw t1_izmtl2b wrote

Smh. Honestly this bs partially drove me, a renter of 18 years with over 11 of it here in Maryland, to just buy. What is allowed in Maryland I personally have not seen in the 3ish other states I have lived in. The insane jumps in rent, with no improvements but usually reduction in amenities, during the early years of the pandemic were wild. One place reduced concierge /doorman service from 24/7 to 6 hours a day: wasn't enough to, you know, live up to their advertising, and constantly moved the 6 hour band from morning to afternoon to night to compensate. Another building had 4 elevators with 2 going to underground parking... Both elevators to the garage would be broken frequently enough that people with disabilities couldn't get to their cars to leave the building. I once saw someone climbing stairs to their 6th floor apartment on crutches once when all 4 elevators were broken for months. They will market it as luxury due to laminate flooring and granite countertops though. 🥴 Also lived in two PMC buildings where the majority of the drama I have experienced as a renter occurred in just one 12 month period. 🤣

Anyway... I used to keep spreadsheets of pricing for buildings years in advance to try to find patterns and beat the system. The practice is so ingrained in me that occasionally I still check previous places I have lived for pricing. I did pushback when my last building tried to screw me on rent upon initial application due to the algorithm and I was satisfied with the outcome.

Godspeed to you all... Had to tap out.

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Therealsoulmate4dj t1_izpfafx wrote

These landlord companies all stink. I would have lived in my first apartment another 3 years if they didn't auto increase the rent 6% each year because the "market pieces" were going up. Meanwhile, like many of you have noted, the identical unit next door was on the market for LESS than we were paying.

Had to fight about it each year for them to knock our rent down instead of signing a brand new lease to move next door, to the same stupid unit, and have them re-list our unit. Moved when they eventually stopped accepting our counter-offer of common sense.

I swear they're allergic to brain cells, cause they sure try their best to alienate happy, paying tenants.

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CaptainObvious110 t1_izm7v2r wrote

Back in early 2018 I was looking for an apartment in Baltimore and found a really nice one at the Severn. The lady who showed the apartment told us most people were renting those apartments sight unseen from out of state. I looked at my mom and sis and they looked at me in total disbelief.

We had never imagined that people would move to a brand new city having never ever stepped foot there and rent an apartment knowing virtually nothing about where they were moving to at all.

I say all that to say that there are a lot of people these days apparently with a lot of money that can go where they want for the most part. These building managements know this and so they are using it to their advantage especially with the Pandemic taking place.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izm8aa5 wrote

They probably get a lot of doctors or grad students who need to find a place ASAP when they land at a program. I couldn’t commit to home without seeing it in person.

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CaptainObvious110 t1_izmj7h5 wrote

Yeah I'm absolutely the same way. I notice people comment on this subreddit and wonder how many of them just showed up and then got a very rude dose of reality once they settled in.

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caro822 t1_izmaxjr wrote

A lot of people moving to the Severn from out of state are going to be med students or grad students at UMD or JHU. Lots of international and out of state people move to Baltimore sight unseen.

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S-Kunst t1_iznofc1 wrote

This is the story of Baltimore. Outsiders gobbling up properties for renting, gouging the tenant, not maintaining what they have. I find it curious as the residential rental market should imitate farming practices. Where the farmer purchases livestock and seeds, puts in the labor to improve the value of the livestock and crops, then can see a financial reward when the items are brought to market. In the end, the farmer knows that it is in their best interest to maintain their infrastructure, so it will work for him and not cause more setbacks for the next season. But, as we know the rental market is all about maximum payment now with no interest in tomorrow.

What puzzles me the most is that there are no smart investors who see that if they practice good farming tactics, they will have a better return over the long haul. Then again most rental property owners know nothing about maintenance or good animal husbandry. They think like the banks and want the fastest dollar today.

Johns Hopkins was in this same camp. Only through the goading and embarrassment laid on him by other wealthy Baltimorians did he provide money for the Hospital & College.

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No-Lunch4249 t1_iznrf7x wrote

They all know how eachothers pricing my guy. Even if they didn’t talk it’d be very easy to find out, thanks to websites like Apartments.com and others that are basically a necessity for landlords to be on in this day and age. And even if that wasn’t the case, it’s a very small community of professionals, you shouldn’t be surprised that they talk informally amongst themselves.

Tbh I’d have just not said where you were moving from

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_iznrz47 wrote

Knowing current pricing and setting next weeks or next months pricing are not the same thing. We can all see current pricing (that’s good for literally THAT DAY). They print a new price sheet daily.

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No-Lunch4249 t1_iznskl2 wrote

Reading through the rest of the thread I saw you were emailing the AGs office. Godspeed and good luck to youz

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izuhxvo wrote

UPDATE: I was informed last week I had to give notice by 12/12 if I intend to leave, and I just sent them an email letting them know that I was now aware that the notice requirements in my lease were not valid. I asked they confirm by tomorrow that in fact the last date to give notice should in fact by 1/12/23. That should be interesting, because I would need that in writing and they have a strict respond via phone policy. They NEVER respond to any request, complaint or anything via email. They are clearly not allowed to. Which tells you a lot. Why have a "nothing in writing" policy unless you are doing something shady?

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caro822 t1_izuxm0i wrote

That is super shady that they won’t put anything in writing. The way I was trained was everything needs to be in writing. Have a conversation covering policy/complaint? Follow up with at minimum an email, if not a letter to the door, summarizing the conversation. Resident has an issue? Put it in writing in their memos, then notify them that it was noted and in their file.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_izuyhis wrote

Three years, not one returned email. They always call to follow up. Two different property managers, it’s clearly a policy.

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TitsMageesVacation OP t1_j1b00sx wrote

update: I just got an email from an assistant AG, Antitrust division, and they want to set up a conference call. A major can of worms may just been opened.

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thc4va t1_j10ea70 wrote

Lmao they tried to raise mine by 600 but talked em down to 280 increase i hate it here

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