We're testing out scooter no-parking zones.

Submitted by BmoreCityDOT t3_znin03 in baltimore

In October, we began piloting no-parking zones around corrals.

The no-parking zones are to encourage riders to park in the corrals and to prevent vehicles from blocking the sidewalks and streets surrounding the corrals.

12 pilot locations were selected.

The locations were selected on the following criteria:

Sole destination: Corrals with only one destination were selected, because there is nowhere else on the block the rider would need to park the vehicle other than the corral. 

Repeated ADA violations: Corrals near locations with repeated ADA violations were selected to prevent vehicles from blocking the sidewalks and curb ramps.

Cross Street Market was selected to prevent vehicles from blocking Cross Street and the surrounding sidewalks, crosswalks, and curb ramps due to the high pedestrian traffic in Federal Hill.

Below is a screenshot of how the no parking zone and corral are shown to riders in the Bird app.

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https://preview.redd.it/z3jwfiimda6a1.png?width=244&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ec9ebfbcd4f2c471142a36ad908cbfb3bcce6be

The diagram shows the corral, where we want riders to park in green and the surrounding no parking zone in red.

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https://preview.redd.it/tdr8copnda6a1.png?width=776&format=png&auto=webp&s=bee2371e560eccb2e700c02179c7fc03e4d41592

Since mid-October, vehicles parked in the Cross Street Market corral have increased.

Over 50% of trips ended on this block of Cross Street were parked in the corral since the no parking zone was added compared to about 30% of vehicles previously.

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https://preview.redd.it/hrw3e7ppda6a1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=54029b3d37d07e901dd00f4774fd86b4e1d6f13f

A full evaluation of the twelve no-parking zones around corrals will be presented at the January 2023 meeting.

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Comments

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essmithsd t1_j0hg1hf wrote

Please just don't go with the DC route, where you have to lock them up to specified areas, it's incredibly dumb.

Also, if you're going to require them to be parked in corrals, ensure that the corrals are actually SET UP and good to go. San Diego required scooters to be parked in corrals, and didn't even have corrals setup in the busiest neighborhoods. It effectively killed scooters in SD.

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Thisteamisajoke t1_j0hnmh2 wrote

My wife and I were just commenting that we noticed the scooters parked in the corrals more often. We used to laugh that the only place a scooter was never parked was in the corrals. Whatever you did, it seems to have worked. Can I ask, is BGE going to repave the streets in Fed Hill after they dug them up and did a laughingly bad job patching them up? Charles Street is a mess.

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kormer t1_j0htkzx wrote

The scooters don't need parking corrals, they need personal flotation devices.

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Thisteamisajoke t1_j0hwgxm wrote

Replying to BmoreCityDOT (#947,147)

That's good to know. They have clearly stopped their work, and the patch jobs they did are atrocious. Is DOT in contact with them? Have they been told their work is unacceptable? It really seems like they think they're done. Thanks for the reply, btw.

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DisentangledElm t1_j0hxcn9 wrote

Good luck enforcing this. The companies first need to penalize, including banning, riders that ditch the scooters in inappropriate places. It'd be nice if we could get them off the roads, especially when they zoom down the wrong way at night. That might be a bridge too far, though.

−2

MarinaraPruppets t1_j0hxo2n wrote

"🚨Woop🚨 woop🚨 woop🚨 that's not where the scooter goes, you lazybones! They go in the scooter corral!"

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bmore t1_j0i2aji wrote

Replying to DisentangledElm (#947,236)

You're commenting good luck enforcing this on a post about effective data-backed enforcement. Kinda weak.

By the way, companies will and do ban riders for repeated parking offenses.

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Cunninghams_right t1_j0i2ty0 wrote

Replying to BmoreCityDOT (#947,168)

how spaced out are the corrals? scooters and bikes are the greenest, fastest, and all-around best mode of transportation within a city. I think people and the DOT over-react to minor violations while ignoring many other sidewalk issues. I have never seen a person on a wheelchair riding down the sidewalk next to the maryland ave bike lane; they ALWAYS ride in the bike lane because the sidewalks are not very passable just from trees, broken concrete, etc.. as a cyclist, I think that's great that we can have better bike infrastructure AND help handicapped folks get around easier.

if you really want to make the city more friendly to people with disabilities, build more bike lanes and subsidize scooter/bike rentals so everything isn't so car-dominant and pedestrian/ADA/cyclist unfriendly.

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Cunninghams_right t1_j0i376u wrote

Replying to DisentangledElm (#947,236)

it's a problem of a really useful mode of transportation but the city infrastructure being totally car dominant. want to guess how much of the Amsterdam sidewalk/street infrastructure is set aside for bikes? one of, if not THE, world bike mecca is 7% dedicated bike infrastructure. 7%. people ride scooters the wrong way up the street because there is nowhere to ride them properly.

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Cunninghams_right t1_j0i3di1 wrote

how did the no parking zones work? were they enforced? were there signs?

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DisentangledElm t1_j0i4737 wrote

Replying to bmore (#947,474)

Probably because the stat about effectiveness was at the bottom and the title was "we're testing," not "here are the results of our test." I'm saying it's difficult to enforce because I see people ditch these things in the street a lot. Yes, I'm one of those "evil motorists" this sub seems to hate, but I dislike these things because a) they're hard to see at night b) they get ditched in the roadways and driveways and c) they care about as much for traffic laws as cyclists do (e.g., blowing through reds). Corralling them is great, if you can get people to do it.

I'd be more interested in the stats for the "non-hub" areas.

−5

DisentangledElm t1_j0i4sd2 wrote

Replying to Cunninghams_right (#947,530)

You can ride the scooter up the one way going the direction you want to go?

The problem with bikes and scooters is they try to enjoy the privileges of pedestrians while ignoring the fact that they have to obey traffic laws too.

−2

Thisteamisajoke t1_j0i6dwf wrote

Replying to BmoreCityDOT (#947,694)

Thank you so much! Please let them know all the work they did across Fed Hill is garbage, and they need to come back and repave everything. Btw, it's awesome you're active on here. It's easy to feel like the Baltimore City government doesn't care about anyone, this gives me some hope.

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PoopIsAlwaysSunny t1_j0iaar0 wrote

That’s cool and all, but I care much more about people riding the scooters like assholes than where they leave them.

Some dickhead riding the scooter 15mph down the sidewalk and hitting me, or running over my dog lying next to me while I eat at a restaurant (then threatening to kill me and the dog) is more upsetting than a stationary scooter.

Or the ones that think red lights/stop signs don’t apply to them. Or they constantly weave between traffic, going from street to sidewalk, etc.

I absolutely love the things conceptually, and they’ve been well executed other places, but they’re a total shitshow here and I’m honestly shocked I haven’t read about anyone dying from riding straight into traffic.

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XanderCruse t1_j0ih3fu wrote

Replying to PoopIsAlwaysSunny (#947,936)

Agreed, they shouldn't be on the sidewalk. We as a city need to invest more in bike/scooter infrastructure so we can avoid this conflict point. In some places, riding on the sidewalk is the only safe option for the scooter operator.

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Classifiedgarlic t1_j0ih6yc wrote

Who do we talk to about getting railings on the inner harbor promenade? I’ve seen so many scooter drivers almost end up in the harbor

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PoopIsAlwaysSunny t1_j0ikcda wrote

Replying to XanderCruse (#948,383)

More infrastructure would be nice, but first it needs to be made very clear that riding on the sidewalk endangers pedestrians and is strictly not allowed.

If the sidewalk is the only safe option, they need to get off and walk with the scooter. It is not their right to endanger pedestrians for their convenience.

bmoreDOT replied to me with a link to a video on their new initiative which seems to address this.

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jabbadarth t1_j0ims0a wrote

Replying to Thisteamisajoke (#947,712)

Not sure if this is what's happening but when they did my street (3ish years ago) they initially patched holes which were left for weeks and then came back and paved when they were done with a majority of the neighborhood.

I assume it's a lot more money and work to replace street by street then it is to wait and do multiple streets at once.

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Cunninghams_right t1_j0imzzn wrote

Replying to DisentangledElm (#947,626)

>The problem with bikes and scooters is they try to enjoy the privileges of pedestrians while ignoring the fact that they have to obey traffic laws too.

that is exactly the point. bikes and scooters ARE like being a pedestrian and should be able to go both ways on any street. imagine if every sidewalk along a 1-way street could only be walked in one direction.

what you're saying is equivalent to: "I hate that people walk north on the sidewalk next to St. Paul street. why can't they just go over to Calvert sidewalks to walk north". it's ridiculous to force people walking to have to walk in the direction of cars. one-way streets only exist because of the shitty space efficiency and danger of cars.

just like pedestrians shouldn't have to walk only in one direction along the sidewalk, bikes/scooters should have a lane to go in both direction on each street.

our culture is so "Stockholm-syndromed" from cars that people just assume the car infrastructure is true, right, just, and handed down by god, and everything else must conform to them, and giving up single-digit percent of road space so that people don't have to do crazy circuitous routes to follow the dumbass car layout is unthinkable.

bikes and scooters don't need 1-way streets, just like pedestrians don't need 1-way sidewalks. one-way streets are a dumbass requirement because cars are a dumbass way to get around a city. the infrastructure should be updated so that people can use any other mode aside from a polluting, dangerous, lazy-boy on wheels. nobody is even asking to get rid of cars... just single-digit of space. that's it. but it's unthinkable...

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squidonthebass t1_j0inmo6 wrote

Replying to PoopIsAlwaysSunny (#948,608)

> If the sidewalk is the only safe option, they need to get off and walk with the scooter

As somebody who rides the scooters a lot - including through areas where it's just straight up not safe to ride on the road - I think it's fine to have a middle ground on here. If there's nobody on the sidewalk, it's fine to ride the scooter. But if you come up on a pedestrian, you give them plenty of space or get off if you can't.

I know there are people that do not ride the scooters with that much respect to pedestrians and I absolutely think it's unacceptable, but I also don't think it's fair to blanket ban riding on sidewalks at all either.

TL;DR just don't be a dickhead when you ride a scooter?

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bookoocash t1_j0ioufz wrote

Replying to PoopIsAlwaysSunny (#948,608)

>but first it needs to be made very clear that riding on the sidewalk endangers pedestrians and is strictly not allowed.

I use the scooters occasionally when my bike is in the shop and I’m 99% certain it literally says to not ride them on the sidewalks on the scooter itself, so there really is no excuse.

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PoopIsAlwaysSunny t1_j0ixzw0 wrote

Replying to mzm316 (#949,462)

Yeah. Ive been going 30mph towards a green light and had them fly through a crosswalk past parked cars and had to slam my brakes. It’s like they think that they’re in a car and have some protection and wont be immediately dead or permanently disabled

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rmphys t1_j0iyzdd wrote

Replying to Cunninghams_right (#947,504)

> scooters and bikes are the greenest, fastest, and all-around best mode of transportation within a city. I think people and the DOT over-react to minor violations while ignoring many other sidewalk issues.

Well, that is because scooters and bikes are also the fastest and most dangerous modes of transportation on sidewalks. A pedestrian, even in a wheelchair, has very little ability to hurt other people due to their movement. Bikes can and do kill people, so they require more regulation (just like cars have even more regulations than bikes because they are even more dangerous).

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NikkiRocker t1_j0izto1 wrote

It has to be enforced or it is useless.

−1

phrostbyt t1_j0j23ba wrote

Can i get some sidewalks in my neighborhood?

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FelixandFriends t1_j0jbmej wrote

This is a great and necessary change! Would love it if scooters couldn’t park mid block anywhere in the city. There’s no reason people can’t park at an intersection and walk the half block to their destination.

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Cunninghams_right t1_j0jxzx0 wrote

Replying to rmphys (#949,565)

>Well, that is because scooters and bikes are also the fastest and most dangerous modes of transportation on sidewalks. A pedestrian, even in a wheelchair, has very little ability to hurt other people due to their movement. Bikes can and do kill people, so they require more regulation (just like cars have even more regulations than bikes because they are even more dangerous).

this is about parking of scooters, not them riding on sidewalks.

but if we want to have that conversation, mobility of handicapped folks AND safety of pedestrians, AND safety of bikes/scooters are improved if build some bike lanes.

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rmphys t1_j0l051j wrote

Replying to Cunninghams_right (#951,399)

>I have never seen a person on a wheelchair riding down the sidewalk next to the maryland ave bike lane; they ALWAYS ride in the bike lane because the sidewalks are not very passable just from trees, broken concrete, etc.. as a cyclist, I think that's great that we can have better bike infrastructure AND help handicapped folks get around easier.

This is literally discussing how to make transportation easier for bikes and wheelchairs. Completely disconnected from scooter parking.

You were literally complaining about the riding of wheelchairs in your post, not the parking of them. I responded in kind about scooters. At least pretend to argue in good faith, sheesh

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divergent222 t1_j0l6478 wrote

Replying to BmoreCityDOT (#947,694)

This isn't even remotely true. Take a 5 minute drive around south baltimore and you'll find roads that were torn up and never repaired to even close to a safe standard for cars let alone scooters or bikes.

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MayorRoyce t1_j0l9sms wrote

I like the idea, but that specific corral is hard to use because of the chain across the road. You have to ride up on the sidewalk and (going east) dismount to lift your bike or scooter up to the sidewalk. Not a complaint about the corral but the poor way the street was blocked off. Bollards would be better.

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always_misunderstood t1_j0lzz3l wrote

Replying to rmphys (#953,005)

I didn't get that from their comments. to what are you referring? it seemed like they were complaining about parked scooters being seen as an ADA problem while ignoring the many other problems with sidewalk accessibility.

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moderndukes t1_j0m1c7o wrote

Replying to essmithsd (#946,235)

> Please just don't go with the DC route, where you have to lock them up to specified areas, it's incredibly dumb.

The title of the post literally says they’re testing out no parking zones.

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moderndukes t1_j0m1nbw wrote

Replying to PoopIsAlwaysSunny (#948,608)

More infrastructure wouldn’t just be nice but it is the thing to solve the problem. Riders feel far safer riding on the sidewalks than they do on the streets in the city - if they felt safe on the streets, they’d be riding on them instead. Bike infrastructure is the only way to actually change it for the better.

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moderndukes t1_j0m2ghn wrote

The charts show the amount of vehicles parked at Cross Street Market (corral or not) decreasing by 24% after the implementation of the pilot program. What do you attribute that to? Ridership in general being lower for the latter period or has there also been an increase of vehicles parked in other nearby zones during that period (and thus, presumably, people parking farther and walking)?

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PoopIsAlwaysSunny t1_j0m6xzt wrote

Replying to moderndukes (#955,208)

Riders feeling safe is not an excuse to make pedestrians unsafe. Yes, improved infrastructure would help this, but even with that there would be dickheads who want to ride on sidewalks. I've seen people ride down thames st in front of the restaurants, as if that is safe or necessary when the promenade is on the other side of the street.

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PoopIsAlwaysSunny t1_j0m99d8 wrote

Replying to moderndukes (#955,527)

I think DOT has a good potential solution, if you look at the video they linked. GPS that detects sidewalk vs street walking, notifies the rider and nearby pedestrians audibly, and I didn’t see this but hopefully shuts them down if continually ridden on sidewalks.

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moderndukes t1_j0mbb0u wrote

Replying to PoopIsAlwaysSunny (#955,591)

You’re really not understanding me. Here’s the sequence causing this issue:

  • People want to bike or scooter.
  • People try on the streets.
  • The streets don’t have proper bike infrastructure, people feel unsafe.
  • People bike/scoot on the sidewalks where they feel safer.
  • Pedestrians feel unsafe on the sidewalks.

You’re trying to solve the problem allllll the way down at step 5 and only for the pedestrians, when that doesn’t address what caused that to happen: the issue of bikers/scooter…ers feeling unsafe on the roads. The lack of proper bike infrastructure is the cause. The effect of not building it while banning them from sidewalks is people will just completely stop biking/scooting at all.

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PoopIsAlwaysSunny t1_j0mne5h wrote

Replying to moderndukes (#955,683)

No, the cause is scooters thinking their convenience trumps the safety of pedestrians.

You’re the one trying to solve the problem by prioritizing improperly. If scooters don’t feel safe on the road, they can walk on the sidewalk. That’s a perfectly valid choice they have.

Making pedestrians unsafe isn’t an option.

I’d rather scooters be banned completely than ridden on sidewalks. They are dangerous to pedestrians and drivers.

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moderndukes t1_j0mrcqu wrote

Replying to PoopIsAlwaysSunny (#956,421)

Dude what did bike lines do to you that you can’t even understand that I’m just saying “install bike lanes and the issue gets solved?”

> I’d rather scooters be banned completely than ridden on sidewalks. They are dangerous to pedestrians and drivers.

Ohhhhh you’re just a NIMBY about bike lanes, this all makes sense now.

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BmoreCityDOT OP t1_j0w5seo wrote

Replying to jabbadarth (#948,789)

If the road is not the way it’s supposed to be, you can also call the BG&E Customer Care Line at 1-800-685-0123. They will forward it to the correct team that handles pavement & restoration.

1