Submitted by claimingthemoorland t3_11cxavf in books

Hannibal the cannibal makes a cheeky little cameo in the first of the series that would make him famous. A few years have passed since the last time that Will Graham and the famous doctor has spoken, all through the tumultuous events where Graham, then working for the FBI, learns of Dr. Lecter’s extra curricular activities after office hours. Now imprisoned for life in an Insane asylum for the criminally insane, Graham asks for his help to find another serial killer after he has been away living the family life, trying his best to live with the trauma of almost being killed by the deranged criminal standing before him. Ever the uber stressed, sassy, grumpy, and just as morally conflicted about his abilities to understand and sympathize with the worst of human monsters, graham trudges through the murky waters of investigative criminology once more in order to save whomever the killer decides to take into his sights.

It took me four days to finish the 343 page thriller, while the book itself is technically well thought out and the flow between characters is clear and not confusing, I never found myself fully captivated. As much as I wanted to know what happened next, I did not find it difficult to put it down for the night. These are famous characters in the modern lexicon to this day, with both the aforementioned characters appearing in a recent television series covering the expanded stories in between the major novels and of course the very well known movies with the same name as their literary counterparts leaving just as lasting of an impact. With that in mind, the book did a good job in showing us the character’s thoughts as they processed the plot events as how it added to the subtle development as the story progressed. Between Will Graham and the main antagonist taking the centerfold of the narrative one does not suffer the inability of understanding one’s motivations and emotions, their thoughts and conflicting philosophies per their side on the matter. We understand why Graham comes back into the fold in order to help catch the killer even though he suffers with the trauma inflicted upon him by Lecter and we understand why Francis Dolarhyde, through his own abuse and the added factor of mental illness, pursue this avenue of crime, with the majority of the book is told through the perspective of Will Graham this adds a level of subtle continuity when we learn that Graham has an innate ability to understand serial killers and thus it helps him catch them.

SPOILER INCOMING.

There is a poignant scene between the antagonist Dolarhyde and a blind woman, Reba McClane, where he experiences true human connection for the first time in his adult life, and even his whole life, after he takes her to meet a tiger at the local zoo. Neither one bullshits the other for their perceived faults; him towards her blindness and her about his extreme self conscious and antisocial behavior. A victim of severe mental abuse and social rejection by his mother and extended family, Dolarhyde has been alone most of his life and was never able to breach that disconnect of misanthropic sociopath, till Reba. Initially propelled through her consensual (bestowing?) of oral sex, they move to the bedroom where Francis feels the full captivation of human connection while enveloped with Reba. The description provided by Harris paints the most vivid portrayal of overwhelming acceptance in a single sharply imposed moment in contrast of a life full of rejection, abuse, and pain, through the act of sex that I would not even qualify it as a simple sex scene, but rather the zenith of human connection. Mixed in with the ever present threat of violence within Francis’ hive mind, Thomas manages to immediately corrupt that moment of connection with the dark game of tug of war between the developing empathy of Dolarhyde and the mounting volcano of violence that is the baser nature of the characters when you take consider that he has killed two whole families by this point.

An avid fan of the TV series and recently recaptivated by reading I was very much caught gray with this reading. Not bad but not great in any grand way to say it detracts from the text. It filled my evening while it lasted and through past exposure of the aforementioned series and movies, I can appreciate them a bit more than I did before. Some argue that Red Dragon and The Silence of the Lambs are thriller classics, I don't necessarily full under thaf camp, though they should undoubtedly be read as a precursor to deeper and darker materials for those on the quest for the darker trails of human thrillers.

Red Dragon by Thomas Harris

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pcprox t1_ja5z9q3 wrote

Awesome book!! And, for my money, the best screen adaptation is "Manhunter." With William Petersen and Brian Cox, whose Lector can't be touched. Highly stylised and beautiful film.

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matohota t1_ja6da7a wrote

I saw that movie decades ago and I still remember scenes from it. It's a great example of atmospheric filming and Mann is at his best. Definitely make an effort to watch it. You won't be disappointed.

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja61cvc wrote

I've not seen that version but I'll be sure to add it to the list!

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crazydave333 t1_ja64x6k wrote

If you liked the scene between Dolarhyde and Reba, then you'll probably enjoy Manhunter, done up in Michael Mann synth soundtrack.

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja6pd62 wrote

Currently watching the Hopkins version I'll probably watch the Cox version tomorrow!

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zalurker t1_ja74kax wrote

I have to agree there. Red Dragon was good, but Manhunter was in different class. Especially the scene with the tiger.

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[deleted] t1_ja5tkl3 wrote

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja5txqp wrote

He does show up in the movie with almost a 1:1 adaption! He's played by Philip Seymour Hoffman in the movie and is a recurring character in the Hannibal television series played by Lara Jean Chorostecki.

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[deleted] t1_ja5uev9 wrote

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja5v1s4 wrote

It's currently canceled with only three seasons. It's surprisingly gory for a network show though some of the dialogue is just hammy as all get out but then so is the source material. I'd watch it if I could rewatch it again for the first time.

Happy cake day!

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Dunstabzugshaubitze t1_ja6uvei wrote

Isn't that the show where they covered up a buttocks with blood and gore, because they feared the ratings board would not let that much nudity fly?

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja6v3zv wrote

I don't know about that specific example but the show certainly is gorey leaving little to the imagination, the make up work is fantastic.

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Dunstabzugshaubitze t1_ja6xd5s wrote

Might be a factoid, but I guess the show is worth it for Mads Mikkelsen alone, if one of my stupid streaming services ever offers it.

I am a big fan of the movies with Hopkins and tried to read the novel "Hannibal" but that did nothing for me. Would you say red dragon and silence are still worth trying?

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja8pr0n wrote

Mads Mikkelson does a great job worth the role. A more charming but sinister version of Hopkins for sure.

Ive only read Hannibal Rising and Red Dragon so far ad I'm reading in chronological order but I can't say I was particularly swayed one way or another about what I've seen so far.

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nyet-marionetka t1_ja843pv wrote

Does the book have all the erotic subtext between Hannibal and Graham that the show does (and that before I watched it I thought fanfiction authors totally made up)?

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja8qnxb wrote

Not one bit. The prime aspect of their relationship is of fear, from Graham's perspective and of intellectual curiosity and obsession (in a revenge kind of way) from Hannibal's. Every time Graham shows up to talk to the doctor, Levter continually brings up how Graham might have captured him.

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nyet-marionetka t1_ja99une wrote

I enjoy relationships based upon fear in my fiction. Maybe I’ll give it a try.

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mind_the_umlaut t1_ja5vmms wrote

Hold the phone, there was a sex scene?!? Between whom? Reba and Dolarhyde??? [scrabbling through my books] Red Dragon is here somewhere....

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja5yexw wrote

Right after they come back from the zoo, Francis makes her a martini and sits on the couch, he watches the Sherman home movie. Reba lays her head on his lap. Yada yada yada, unzips him, does the thing. She comments "wow you're not done." They go to the bedroom! Chapter 35!

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DarthDregan t1_ja8zx0c wrote

Thomas Harris put out four amazing books and probably should have then retired.

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FocusAny1808 t1_ja76f9q wrote

My 2c. I loved the book - maybe it was an of them era thing

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja8q7r5 wrote

Upon reflection I think having watched the movies and TV series before tackling the books left me wanting a more dynamic atmosphere, certainly with the TV series which user viveral gore and interpretations of artistic themes like Sandro Botticelli in their construction.

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AyGyLM t1_ja88tpk wrote

Ahm, your exposure says "this is an incredible book, maybe more descriptive than philosophical but nevertheless one that understands the mental processes of people, tough I personally didn't feel it was overwhelmingly addictive" and that seems incredible, I genuinely was thrilled by reading this post.

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja8ri6m wrote

Thank you for your kind feedback! I recently got back into reading after years of post college burn out and I missed discussing books a lot. This is very encouraging to read!

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AyGyLM t1_jac78jv wrote

I love that you described it as an incredibly thought out book, in the context of your own opinion that that book in particular wasn't obssessively addictive. let me say, first, good to know you are getting back from that post college burn out, however may it have affected you, hope you are doing good... second, for me, after college, i feel no book is obsessively addictive, even if I am loving them. makes it a bit hard to finish them eheh but I may partially understand.

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_jadao3w wrote

Often when reading thrillers you'll find some little thread or two that never really pan out in the end and that always got on my nerves. Harris really planned out the even the subtle details through the characters.

Maybe it is my post college burnout or the new wave of creative writing that makes it hard on top of the resurgent refining of the pallet but it sure does take me a while to find the next story. Thank you for your kind words, I hope you're doing good as well!

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KhanHulagu t1_ja9aqjp wrote

Arguably the best crime book

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unlovelyladybartleby t1_ja85bqp wrote

I love Harris' books, but as a person with a cleft lip and palate, I have a deep hatred for Red Dragon

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja8r9hq wrote

From your perspective did Harris mess up how it affects a person through the narrative?

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unlovelyladybartleby t1_ja9anon wrote

I'm not a serial killer if that's what you're asking, lol. It definitely has an impact on self-esteem and health, but it's basically unheard of for anyone born after 1950 within a few hours of a hospital to not have had basic corrective surgery, so Harris was really reaching. But he's older and so is the book, so from anyone without a cleft he'd probably get a pass

I was offended by the portrayal, but people with clefts get shit on in a lot of books (Stephen King and Augusten Burroughs, I'm glaring at you). Often, having a cleft is used as an example of being disgusting or a reason to shun someone. But no one cares - people get criticized for shitting on other disabilities, but no one seems to care about facial defects. Probably because we don't have any hot celebrities as spokespeople.

I will say, Wally Lamb did a decent job of portraying Thomas and Dom's mom in the Hour I First Believed

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DunmerMaiden t1_ja9z8cn wrote

I've only read the book once so my thoughts on this may be more from the movie version, but I got the feeling that no one else thought he was hideous except him. Like to everyone else he was a normal dude with a little bit of a lisp and it was his own trauma that made him zero in on whatever "flaws" he had as a way to make himself feel like a piece of shit.

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja9bxt6 wrote

Oh no! Not what I was asking! To your point, which I think is pedantic of me to say, but it's an interesting fact about the character. Francis was born on June 14, 1938, I do not know if Harris carried your initial point when he published in the 80's.

For sure the story revolves heavily around his societal rejection from his lip and how it effects his interactions with people in his later years and it's brutal.

I'll be sure to add the movie to the things to watch!

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Radio_gugu t1_ja6r6xp wrote

You should watch the TV show !! It's better than the book

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claimingthemoorland OP t1_ja8uy9a wrote

I did watch the show! It's what got me interested in the books.

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Radio_gugu t1_ja8zhqb wrote

That's so great!

And this is one of the rare cases where a TV show is better than the book, while the book itself is so good

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