Reading classics in their native language? Thoughts and suggestions - Dumas and Hugo

Submitted by TegisTARDIS t3_11b4bjf in books

To preface: I love reading. Ive read long, 1000+page tomes in english exclusively, but ive read many-a novel, novella and short story in both english and french. Ive read since I was young, on and off, in multiple languages, for pleasure and for academics. I still read for pleasure in my free time and am starting to read more again, ive also come to a point in life I dont get much practice in my second language, French.

To the point; ive also read meany translations. The works are still lovely, and I dont mean to disparage the efforts in translation, but I just can't help but wonder if it leaves something wanting.

I had put "the Count of Monte Cristo" off for the express purpose of reading it in French. Then I remember about things like "the phantom of the opera" and <<Notre dame de Paris>> (hunchback) being translations from French as well. Some of these works are likely a bit beyond what ive regressed to, but not hopelessly beyond understanding. If anyone has experience with the original in french, how much farther ahead is Dumas in terms of reading difficulty?

If someonee has thoughts to share, or has experiences with translations from a language you speak; I'd love to start a conversation.

Eg: someone Slavic reading Dostoevsky, Japanese reading Murakami(, Dumas read in French), or the many other authors who have reached inter-linguistic stardom in the "English cannon"

Tldr:

Should I read the "French classics" in French? Even if im a little rusty en français? Would you, if given the chance? Have you already? Let's talk about it

Edit: Thank you for the answers regarding my questions specifically. Might rephrase it from a more generally useful angle later on for the sub reddit as a whole.

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pattern3c t1_j9vw97c wrote

If you have the option to read Dumas in French, I would definitely recommend it. You cannot beat reading a book in the language it was meant to be read.

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DrKurgan t1_j9vyrkq wrote

I'm reading Dumas in French right now (but I'm French). Unless you're bilingual it's going to be hard. It's also an enormous book.

Below's a passage from the page I'm on (mostly spoiler free), to show what you're up against.

Jugez par vous-même, mon hôte, jugez ; mais ne vous en tenez pas à une première expérience : comme en toute chose, il faut habituer les sens à une impression nouvelle, douce ou violente, triste ou joyeuse. Il y a une lutte de la nature contre cette divine substance, de la nature qui n’est pas faite pour la joie et qui se cramponne à la douleur. Il faut que la nature vaincue succombe dans le combat, il faut que la réalité succède au rêve ; et alors le rêve règne en maître, alors c’est le rêve qui devient la vie et la vie qui devient le rêve : mais quelle différence dans cette transfiguration ! c’est-à-dire qu’en comparant les douleurs de l’existence réelle aux jouissances de l’existence factice, vous ne voudrez plus vivre jamais, et que vous voudrez rêver toujours. Quand vous quitterez votre monde à vous pour le monde des autres, il vous semblera passer d’un printemps napolitain à un hiver lapon, il vous semblera quitter le paradis pour la terre, le ciel pour l’enfer. Goûtez du hachisch, mon hôte ! goûtez-en !

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Whaffled t1_j9vzxsd wrote

tu as choisi un très beau morceau là ... : ) "les jouissances de l'existence factice"

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TegisTARDIS OP t1_j9w3am5 wrote

Mon probleme avec le langue c'est car j'ai pas du practi en mon vie cotidienne, et j'y vien d'oublir les chose spécifique ou obscures. Je peux comprendre plus que je peux m'expresser en conversation, et mon vocabulaire se fait lentir jour par jours. Mon écriture c'est le pire de tous, et je pense que lire plus est le premier solution pour ça.

J'ai déjà lu presque 3 chapitre en anglais et français déjà, et je peux dire sûrement que j'utilise un dictionnaire pour les mots antique ou rare, et j'suis plus lent a comprendre, mais ça c'est un des raison pour faire ça. S'améliore.

Seeing as your reading the "end goal" and are a native speaker, how would you rank classics like Notre dame, fantôme, and les mis to it, if you're also familiar with the originals.

Where would you start? given youve seen how i spell and form thoughts in* french?

Edit: Would have looked up cramponner and hachish. Its fair to say I understood the passage through context, but it was slower than everyday French

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DrKurgan t1_j9w6ifx wrote

Je n'ai lu ni Notre-Dame ni le fantôme, désolé. En Français j'ai surtout lu Boris Vian.
Si tu as accès à une bibliothèque (moi j'ai accès à celle de Toronto), commande ce que tu veux, si c'est trop compliqué passe à autre chose. Tu peux aussi lire des bandes dessinées, il y en a des biens pour tout âges.

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bobob555777 t1_j9w9wuj wrote

if cramponner and haschisch are the only words in that entire passage you would need to look up, then youll be fine reading les mis i think (im currently reading it in the original french, am bilingual and speak french daily at home, im loving the book so far but a lot of the older words i do have to look up). a 1600 page long book is a challenge regardless of language, so might as well read the original text for the full experience :)

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MorriganJade t1_j9vvvnx wrote

What I've noticed about translations personally is if you read ones that are already famous in your country they can be really good, for example I'm from Italy and I've read many really good translations which I've then reread in English when I was older. But if you specifically go look for a translation, like for example if I loved a book in English, and I look for it in Italian to give to people, the translation tends to be bad or have major flaws. Maybe it has to be an older classic or really famous to always be good

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TegisTARDIS OP t1_j9w3qt1 wrote

Theyre actually two translations that're famous for monte cristo in english. One more infamous i guess, but thats also part of why id like feedback on the original, given the contested nature and censorship of the English translation(s)

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Romarium t1_j9vxay7 wrote

Maybe try to ease your way in by reading a book meant for YA readers. Itll be interesting without diving too far into language that is antiquated. You could get yourself up to speed that way

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TegisTARDIS OP t1_j9w1gc5 wrote

For reference: half of my school credits were in French and that's about the level of reading I've been at in French for a decade, most of "les romans français" ive read are <300 pages, and not anything mindblowingly difficult or antiquated, usually analized in literature-class format (essays, presentations, quizes on vocab/grammar/etc). Im looking to progress from there, hence the question. (My education is a Canadian "French emersion" one from a border-province.)

moreso wondering how something like fantôme de l'Opera compares to Monté Cristo in vocabulary, or if someone has experiences with originals v translation (in non-mastery / ECL C1 level) second languages, for advice or insight

ie: discussing the nuance lost vs ease of comprehension in translations. Which of the classics would be a good entry into 1800s French vocab, specifically. That sort of thing.

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Amphy64 t1_j9x1xrz wrote

Those aren't necc. any less confusing, for someone who doesn't really get to use French much day-to-day. I find modern slang to be a bigger pain than archaisms in an otherwise straightforward sentence, personally, it's just look up that one word and carry on. And if classics are what someone is interested in reading, they're going to be better off just doing that, than something more modern that will have vocabulary and phrasing the older texts won't use while lacking some of those they do.

Harry Potter in French is very straightforward for learners with a lot of useful vocabulary, but think OP is past needing to read that if something else appeals more.

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HotpieTargaryen t1_j9vxvqi wrote

In Search of Lost Time was much more engaging in the original French. Sadly I’ve lost most of my knowledge over the years, but it was one the best original language reads I’ve ever had.

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TegisTARDIS OP t1_j9w1lir wrote

Thank you! I'll look that one up and likely put it in the Fr TBR!

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lorryjor t1_j9x03c9 wrote

I'm an Arabic professor who learned Icelandic for fun, and then I discovered Arnaldur Indriðason, and have absolutely loved his crime books, especially the Inspector Erlendur series. His books are very popular worldwide, and I've been very happy to be able to access them in the original.

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Amphy64 t1_j9x0iih wrote

Your native language is English? Then, if you try and find you can't read in French, it's time to be realistic about how much French you actually know. It's not possible for someone who actually does know both languages not to be able to read in it. Pure guesswork will tell a native English speaker what absurd amounts of the vocabulary means even if they've spent no time studying French, because our language is in fact mostly French. If you've done this before with other languages you remember how, right?

Then there's online dictionaries, built in ones on Kindle. Cakewalk.

Edit: Seeing you write about the passage, it's very obvious you can do it. Practice will improve speed, it'll be fine.

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quantcompandthings t1_j9xng8e wrote

I'm learning a second language at the moment and have progressed to the point where i'm able to read one of the most famous books written in that language after 1950. It's like their culture's equivalent of The count of Monte Cristo basically.

The book is written in vernacular, and much of the humor would survive translation pretty well because it's broad or low comedy. it's not really subtle stuff.

what would be difficult to translate is the cultural background material. the reader would have to have a pretty good grasp of the government and social structure of the story setting or else it can be hard to enjoy. there isn't a whole lot of world building so to speak, like the writer just assumes you know what's what because people in that culture generally do know it.

But for the classics written prior to the 20th century, translations are absolute crap. So I was trying (and failing) to read one of their greatest classics written in the 18th century, and took me hours to get through half a page. I consulted THREE English translations all from extremely reputable sources, and they all read totally differently. It was even hard to tell they were working from the source material! It would be a total waste of time to read it in any language other than the original. Although translations can help with comprehension and be used as a guide/tutorial of sorts.

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ProfessionalNorth431 t1_ja08mw2 wrote

Listening to an audio book of Les Miserables right now, and it’s definitely slapping my pronunciation back into shape a bit. Read it in English but that was in elementary school 20 years ago, so I can’t really compare the experiences

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Dismal_Contest_5833 t1_j9z52z1 wrote

normally id recommend it, but judging by my personal experience from trying to reading the three musketeers, i wouldnt recommend for beginners.

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