The Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - James Joyce

Submitted by ddotcole t3_117e56s in books

I have currently been reading the above-mentioned book and found a passage I find interesting:

> The soot-coated packet of pictures which he had hidden in the flue of the fireplace and in the presence of whose shameless or bashful wantonness he lay for hours sinning in thought and deed;

My translation: "He spent hours looking at and jacking off to sexy pictures."

I find this interesting as the quoted passage comes across less vulgar but states the same thing in my mind. Is this what makes something literary? Do you have any examples of such a thing that jump out to you?

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TheChocolateMelted t1_j9b8o7y wrote

The standards for vulgarity were quite a lot more restrictive 100 years ago than they are nowadays. Being blunt worked against writers. It's worth noting that readers were actually warned about the presence of bodily fluids/functions in this novel. Vague memory that the rejection of religion was a groundbreaking subject, but don't quote me.

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The concept that comes to mind is a touch removed from your Joyce one. It's actually from Midnight's Children by Salman Rushdie. The narrator describes censorship laws banning anything as explicit from kissing in Indian cinema at the time of the story. But then a filmmaker circumvented this by having two lovers kiss an apple and pass it back and forward between each other. Just a beautiful image. It's been popping up every so often for twenty years.

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ddotcole OP t1_j9bgg9m wrote

I tend to not research literary classics before reading them, thus I was unsure how this book fit within the literary world. I felt the rejection of religion within the book would have stood out at the time it was written as well while reading it (only half way though currently). I also like how it shows the juxtaposition of the churches teachings versus how people tend to (or want to) live. It shows the struggle of Stephen's actions and thoughts versus religions beliefs of how one should act quite well.

Its interesting how you say the Indian filmmaker would have the actor's kiss an apple in leu of kissing each other to get around laws about showing such stuff. Goes to show people will find a way to circumvent dumb, thoughtless laws, creating art in the process.

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Smegmatron3030 t1_j9djyj5 wrote

>“Good night,” she murmured.

>He did not answer, except to continue to caress her. He did not say good night until she had become supple to his gentle, seductive entreaties.

-Kate Chopin, The Awakening

This passage is a sex scene. Later in the book she describes a woman in labor, and does so in such a circumspect way that I didn't realize she was talking about childbirth until almost an entire chapter later, at which point I had to go back and reread the section.

Unlike Joyce, Chopin otherwise wrote plain and straightforward prose. This is just the standards of the time for discussing taboo topics.

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ddotcole OP t1_j9fr0d3 wrote

This reads to me like he had sex with her after she had fallen asleep. Is that how you interpreted it?

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Smegmatron3030 t1_j9g7oax wrote

From later context it's clear that they had sex and she was an active participant.

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Disparition_2022 t1_j9bgpos wrote

The quoted passage, at the time it was written, was still considered fairly vulgar and while the book was popular in its day, there was definitely a fair amount of consternation about Joyce portraying bodily functions and sexual thoughts and acts at all even in this language that seems, to modern eyes, much less direct. At the time the book was written the Victorian era had only just ended ten years ago and a lot of the social mores of that period remained in place.

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ddotcole OP t1_j9bhvyw wrote

I had to read it twice, then read it to a coworker to solidify my thought on what the line was saying.

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Disparition_2022 t1_j9bioq6 wrote

Wait until you get to Ulysses, he goes way further, and plays around with a lot of different styles while doing so. It starts off as a direct sequel to Portrait and then focuses on a different character after a few chapters.

and if you want a glimpse of his mind "unfiltered" check out his letters to Nora.

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theliver t1_j9ea8mq wrote

I recently read it and loved it. I remember thinking in chapter 2 that Stephen just needs to jack off and his problems would be lessened.

Then chapter 3 happened and i was laughing so hard.

Also loved the day of dappled seaborn clouds on the jetty

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ddotcole OP t1_j9fqms6 wrote

> By means of ejaculations and prayers he stored up ungrudgingly for the souls in purgatory centuries of days and quarantines and years;

This is near the start of chapter four, read with a modern sensibility it sounds like Stephen has began to jerk it in repentance.

The first time I came across 'ejaculate' defined as 'something said quickly and suddenly' was in Zane Grey's 'Riders of the Purple Sage'. While a few cowboys were standing around, the story claimed one of them 'ejaculated' which sent me into a fit of hysterics for about ten minutes. After than I calmed down and looked up how it was meant to be understood. Now I have seen it used multiple times in different books that were mostly written over a century ago.

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