HauntedHovel t1_je7bsor wrote on March 29, 2023 at 10:51 PM

I’m not American, have never been to the USA, and have lived most of my life in Europe. I liked the book and can appreciate the characters - there are people like the Buchanans every where, as are elements of Gatsby’s personality. For me it is a tragic story about a man who ruins his life and corrupts himself trying to impress awful people. He wasted his time and talents and eventually his happiness and his life on a completely worthless goal. Daisy is vile and what she seems to represent to Gatsby, the acceptance of her class, was never worth anyone’s spit let alone soul. Delusion and disillusionment too late is a story that can be understood universally.

I do get the impression that the book means something more or different to Americans though. I don’t see the romance or the misled heroism the narrator and apparently many US readers see, nor do I feel any of the glamour that’s supposed to be there. Gatsby throwing his money around gave me second hand embarrassment for him, it was quite uncomfortable to read.

e_crabapple t1_je886fd wrote on March 30, 2023 at 2:58 AM

Am American, so I'll jump in and try to explain the "romance and heroism" aspect -- it mostly hinges on how Gatsby reinvents himself from scratch. He started out as a nobody in the middle of nowhere, but a few years later he has a new name and a fancy swingin lifestyle, all of which he conjured out of thin air. He has no history to hold him down; he is that self-made man which seems to be irresistable to the American mindset. Plus, he has a romantic mindset, pursuing his lady love like some kind of poetic hero.

The novel of course puts a spin on this by having him "conjure all of that out of thin air" by cozying up to existing rich people, and then just straight-up crime. He then blows all his riches in the tackiest, dumbest way possible (the party scenes are supposed to be pretty over-the-top and ridiculous). Finally, even with all this in mind, his "lady love" is a good deal worse, which he is completely blind to.

Of course, a large number of people miss the point and enjoy the tacky and ridiculous displays of wealth completely for their own sake; most of the movie versions owe their success to this.

HauntedHovel t1_jear4r2 wrote on March 30, 2023 at 5:31 PM

Than you, that’s really interesting, because I think it’s true that I’m culturally trained not to see seeking wealth or status as heroic. People do it of course, but it’s not something you are supposed to draw attention to, so people have to find subtle ( and often hypocritical) ways to flaunt their wealth and power. And heroism is associated with selflessness, being flashy or ambitious is kind of contradictory to the concept as I learned it.

Different-Carpet-159 OP t1_je7mj9l wrote on March 30, 2023 at 12:12 AM

I think you are the second to feel embarrassed or cringy for Gatsby.

Shiny_Happy_Cylon t1_je89adl wrote on March 30, 2023 at 3:07 AM

Count me the third. And I'm American. It always made me cringe, even when I watched it as a kid. It was embarrassing to see him throw away everything for that horrid girl.