senoritaraquelita t1_jd90wvh wrote on March 22, 2023 at 6:21 PM

I think that Giovanni is a complex and flawed character who certainly expresses misogynistic views. But I think that Baldwin adds this not to perpetuate these views but to develop the character and explore the complex layers of oppression. Giovanni suffers a certain level of oppression due to his sexuality and class. However, he also benefits from a certain amount of privilege because he is a man. Instead of finding solidarity with women who are also oppressed, he exerts the small amount of power he has by asserting his superiority to women. I think this feeling of resentment towards women is amplified by his jealousy, as romantic relationship between men and women are seen as valid while any relationship he has with a man is seen as shameful and loveless. I think his resentment is misplaced but it is also understandable given the circumstances.

senoritaraquelita t1_jd91fiq wrote on March 22, 2023 at 6:24 PM

I still found Giovanni ~more~ likable than David. At least he takes a stand for something and is honest about his intentions while David just flops around and let’s things happen and then acts surprised when they happen. But I don’t think Baldwin’s intent was to write likable characters but to write interesting characters and I definitely think he succeeded there.

West_b0und OP t1_jd93zyj wrote on March 22, 2023 at 6:40 PM

I agree, he definitely succeeded on that front.

David as a character is so… stagnant, which is a trait I normally wouldn’t judge him for were it not for his attitude towards Giovanni. You’ve nailed his general character arc (lol)— like, literally ALL he does is flop around, ignoring what needs to be done until the thing gets done for him. In addition, while I do feel some sympathy for his struggles with his sexuality, the way he goes about addressing those struggles… is very deficient, to say the least. Unlike him, Giovanni, for all his flaws, knows when to act (something I admire).

West_b0und OP t1_jd956yp wrote on March 22, 2023 at 6:48 PM

Mmmm. I also thought that his beliefs about women may have something to do with losing his child as a younger man, back when he was with a woman. If his sexuality was repressed while he was with her (now that I think about it, while he mentions that his partner was good to him, he only says that she loved him, not the other way around), once he’d left her, it must’ve occurred to him that he could be with whoever he wanted. And he wanted men like David.