Meteorologie t1_javbpdh wrote
Reply to comment by ReadyClayerOne in Banning Words Won’t Make the World More Just - The Atlantic by vaikrunta
I think he’s arguing against the idea that if you are not fully on board with constant and mutually-conflicting revisions of words and phrases in everyday use, decided behind closed doors by unknown and unaccountable figures and handed down with no debate or dissent permitted, you must be an asshole, bigot, or some other type of Bad Person.
I think you sort of proved his point.
davowankenobi t1_jaygftg wrote
You keep saying unknown and unaccountable people, which leads me to believe that you don’t know have meaningful relationships with anyone that is affected by racist, ableist, homophobic, transphobic language.
Just because you don’t know how equitable language came/comes about, does not make it what you think it is. You’re making it sound like there is some cabal that want to use language that is more equitable and inclusive.
ReadyClayerOne t1_jazl1cq wrote
> decided behind closed doors by unknown and unaccountable figures
I'm sorry. Who is this shadowy cabal deciding inclusive language? Do they decide all the modern no-no words or are there sub-committees for different minority groups?
>and handed down with no debate or dissent permitted,
They have enforcers!? Wow. They must be pretty powerful. I can imagine it now, "Hey, Tony, we don't use the g-word anymore. Yeah, last Tuesday. You mean yous didn't get the new list? Sorry, no excuses. I have to bust ya kneecaps. Oh, I guess I gotta call you a Nazi or racist or something too. Yeah, thanks for being so understanding, Tony."
Now, I wrote a lot of words so maybe you missed the important point that he missed and one of the main issues I have with accepting his argument. So let me spell it out:
The way we describe people absolutely colors how we engage with them. Advocates for inclusive or person-first language often do so with the intention of humanizing individuals within a group.
How much they succeed and whether or not they're ignoring the people with the most skin in the game, so to speak, is up for debate, especially as more people from within these minority and marginalized groups are able to be heard. It can be hard when there are advocates outside a group trying to be mindful or helpful so they use terms that conflict with the preferred terms of people within that group, doubly so if advocates within the group aren't even completely decided. And that's not even getting into the in-group people who are not as engaged and may not accept any of the most popular terms.
For example, I used latinx in a setting with some younger people from Cuba and the Dominican Republic a few years ago, mostly because I heard it and thought maybe it was slightly more inclusive. They were upset at most and indifferent at best, but all very vocal about it. So I asked their opinions, listened, then asked, "What would you, right now, as a group prefer?" They debated latino, but then came to a consensus of either that or latin@, an alternative a few had seen that combines the -a and -o pronounced like latinay, for its inclusivity to the girls. So that's what I went with. When I was with other groups, if they had a problem when said it, I'd usually laugh a bit and apologize, explain my experience with the first group then ask the new group their preference.
We seem to have this aversion to being wrong. I don't know if I can blame people for where it comes from. I know I'm not immune to it. Part of it's natural: it hurts to be wrong. It hurts to have someone disagree with us. Research shows that our worldview is fundamentally tied to our ego. So when our opinions or beliefs are challenged, our body feels threatened. But part of this aversion is learned too. We get so full of ourselves. Look at the people I listen to, how intelligent I am, how many people I know, the success I have in work and home, the breadth and depth of my knowledge as proven by my peers, teachers, and institutions! Surely there is no fault in my logic, foundation, or reasoning! Maybe that's just as much the ego talking.
Perhaps I'm rambling. Point being that we hear a lot about scientific or mathematical reasoning. These are fields wherein answers are often clear cut. Barring rare or unusual cases that don't affect nor appear in most peoples' daily lives, 2+2=4; ice freezes; fire burns.
When it comes to people, our societies, our cultures, our languages and so on, things are not so clear cut. The language today is not the language we grew up with. There is no higher authority that can dictate nor forcefully direct the change of such. Rationality can only predict so much because not every person is rational nor are they rational in the same ways as, even with the same information, two people may come to opposite conclusions. In that way, we may write or say something and someone will disagree. It may be one person. It may be an entire group. We may be able to defend what we said and how we said it wholly and flawlessly. We may realize that what we said or how we said it was, in fact, poorly delivered. The best we can do is understand and learn. It's no good engaging with people who have good intentions if we don't even try to understand and faithfully represent why they do what they do.
If you've stuck with me this long, thanks. You didn't have to, especially after my snark at the beginning. I've been writing this comment longer than I wanted, same as my original comment honestly, partially because it's gotten more introspective than I was intending. I'm tired. Tired of a lot of things. I'm tired of endless niggling that assumes such and such is a monolith, taking advantage of our gullible brains' inability to distinguish a few examples from a genuine trend. I'm tired of endless pontificators huffing their own farts in intellectually masturbatory editorials. I'm tired of the people that continue to publish that rubbish as it's often inflammatory "hot takes" designed to attract clicks.
Anyways, here's Douglas Adams being far more concise than I'll ever care to be on the general subject:
>Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty- five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
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