Need some help from Jane Eyre fans...

Submitted by poohfan t3_125gjzt in books

One of my friends hosts a gothic book discussion online every few months. For April, she chose Jane Eyre & asked if I would help "co-host" it. Between the two of us, we would pose questions about the book, characters, or our own impressions of the book. If you were in a group like this, what kind of things would you like to see discussed? It's my first time helping, so I want to give some good questions!! Thanks!

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PennilynnLott t1_je4vdzb wrote

  1. How much better would Jane's life have been had she been allowed to just live happily with her fellow spinster cousins and read books all day every day?

  2. How old were you when you realized how "St John" is pronounced? How much does it still cause you physical pain when you think about it?

  3. How deliberate do you think it was that Helen dying in Jane's arms is more romantic than anything Rochester could ever do?

  4. You and Grace Poole are out at a bar. What drink do you buy her 6 of to get her to spill the tea?

  5. Bertha Mason- to what degree would Lucille Bluth say "good for her" when she sets everything on fire?

  6. Where does Rochester find the audacity?

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Primary-Initiative52 t1_je5osp0 wrote

I am today years old when I found out the pronunciation dude's name....not SAINT JOHN the way any normal person would pronounce it, but "Sinjin." The fuck?

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PennilynnLott t1_je5vqov wrote

I only learned it a year or two ago and it causes me deep physical and psychological anguish every time I remember it.

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CraftyRole4567 t1_jefes39 wrote

Ha! We who grew up in the 80s learned this on the show Airwolf! I have no idea why anyone reads Jane Eyre without watching Airwolf first …

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Obedient_Wife79 t1_je55wb1 wrote

  1. How much better would most women’s lives be if this was a sustainable option?

  2. When I was in my 30’s and there was a character on Mad Men named St John. I felt dumb as hell.

  3. I ugly cry every time I read this part. Full on snotty nose running down my face, tears streaming from my eyes. I first read it when I was 14ish and it helped me understand there are different types of soulmates.

  4. Grace Poole would only need 1 shot of whiskey because you know she wants to spill the beans and feel VERY important.

  5. 100%. And I think we should use this as a measure of female independence and rebellion against the patriarchy from now on.

  6. Not just the audacity. Where does he get the caucasity? And the answer is unqualified men have always been put in places of authority because other unqualified men are terrified of uteruses. Uteri? What’s the plural for uterus?

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floppyjoe714 t1_je51uj5 wrote

  1. Oh I don't know, I think she enjoys being mean to Mr. Rochester and she gets to call him ugly at the end.
  2. 20 in a college lit class. There was a deli near my old apartment called St. John's market and we used to call it Sinjin's just to be annoying.
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poohfan OP t1_je4zyio wrote

Oooo, those are good ones, especially #6!! LOL I like these!!

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Sumtimesagr8notion t1_je6bfpt wrote

How is St John pronounced?

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PennilynnLott t1_je6c87s wrote

"Sinjin". I'm so, so sorry.

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Dana07620 t1_je7boan wrote

I learned that from 1984's Airwolf TV show where the brother of the main character was named St. John. (The main character was named Stringfellow.)

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little_carmine_ t1_je6r1oq wrote

Why? Could you please explain?

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PennilynnLott t1_je6t76h wrote

I cannot explain, I can only pass on this cursed knowledge as it was passed on to me.

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SparklingSarcasm99 t1_je6z034 wrote

Apparently it’s because it’s the English version of the French name Saint-Jean which is pronounced similarly. That combined with regional accents in England changed it to Sinjin over time. (Even knowing that still upsets me. I too was pronouncing it wrong for way too long).

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Zeltene t1_je4o9sp wrote

I have always been curious how other people perceived the Jane's name floating on the air to her which caused their reunion. Also her accidentally ending up in the care of her only blood relatives after she ran away from Mr. Rochester. Gothic mysticism or slightly annoying trope? I also wonder difference in perception between modern reader and her contemporaries, especially regarding those scenes. Perhaps you could look up some reviews from her time, and compare with opinions of your book club?

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poohfan OP t1_je4osgm wrote

That's a good idea! Thanks for the suggestion!

I always thought she went to her aunt, because she literally had no where to go, & she preferred it to Lowwood.

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Zeltene t1_je4pd25 wrote

I meant, after she ran away from Mr. Rochester when the truth was revealed about his mad wife in the attic. She almost died in the field when a clergyman found her, and it turned out to be her cousin Saint John. I mean, what are the odds.

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VisualGeologist6258 t1_je4v99s wrote

One could argue that it was divine will, since religion is a big part of the novel and Jane’s survival strategy is ‘pray and praise God’ when walking around the countryside with nowhere to go and nothing in the way of resources.

Could’ve just been a coincidence but I choose to interpret it as an act of God.

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Zeltene t1_je56fs7 wrote

This could also be an interesting point of comparison. If memory serves, quite a few of her contemporaries critiqued the book as anti-Christian.

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Professor_JT t1_je4g2h0 wrote

Reading this book I recently discovered two interesting meanings:

  1. This books is an INVERSION of John Bunyan's The Pilgrim's Progress, with Jane's path being toward a sort of religion of the self
  2. Mr. Rochester symbolizes Satan, aka the tempter, the serpent

I broke this all down on my podcast, feel free to have a listen: https://www.everymanacademy.com/podcast/episode/78dbcd63/jane-eyre

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Dana07620 t1_je7c5tp wrote

I disagree. Jane started out being a little pagan and became deeply Christian.

And Rochester also ended up following a Christian path.

>“Jane! you think me, I daresay, an irreligious dog: but my heart swells with gratitude to the beneficent God of this earth just now. He sees not as man sees, but far clearer: judges not as man judges, but far more wisely. I did wrong: I would have sullied my innocent flower—breathed guilt on its purity: the Omnipotent snatched it from me. I, in my stiff-necked rebellion, almost cursed the dispensation: instead of bending to the decree, I defied it. Divine justice pursued its course; disasters came thick on me: I was forced to pass through the valley of the shadow of death. His chastisements are mighty; and one smote me which has humbled me for ever. You know I was proud of my strength: but what is it now, when I must give it over to foreign guidance, as a child does its weakness? Of late, Jane—only—only of late—I began to see and acknowledge the hand of God in my doom. I began to experience remorse, repentance; the wish for reconcilement to my Maker. I began sometimes to pray: very brief prayers they were, but very sincere.

...

> He put me off his knee, rose, and reverently lifting his hat from his brow, and bending his sightless eyes to the earth, he stood in mute devotion. Only the last words of the worship were audible.

>“I thank my Maker, that, in the midst of judgment, he has remembered mercy. I humbly entreat my Redeemer to give me strength to lead henceforth a purer life than I have done hitherto!”

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Professor_JT t1_je8dcrl wrote

Yeah, I broke it down on my podcast, feel free to listen. Detail, context, quotes, rationale, to be found there.

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Professor_JT t1_jebpssm wrote

Here are many references/links to Mr. Rochester symbolizing Satan:

Isaiah 14:12-20

“You have been cut down to the earth,

You who have weakened the nations!"

When Jane first meets Mr. Rochester he is tumbling down to earth.

2 Corinthians 11:14

No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

“I had hardly ever seen such a handsome youth…and should have shunned them as one would fire, lightning and anything else that is bright but antipathetic" (133-134)

When meeting Mr. Rochester again, he is surrounded by fire and speaks of blasphemy.

“Come to the fire, said the master”, “a novice not worship her priest! That sounds blasphemous” (p145)

Their next meeting Mr. Rochester is in his “after dinner mood” and is described as having “dark eyes”, “great dark eyes” (p 152-153)

Speaking of his previous womanizing ways, he talks of “sweet, fresh pleasure” and calls Jane a “neophyte” (p160)

The serpent said to the woman, You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:1-5

“I believe it was inspiration rather than temptation…it is no devil…it has put on the robes of an angel of light”

Jane says, “it is not a true angel”, to which Mr. Rochester replies, “how do you know between a seraph of the fallen abyss and a messenger from the eternal throne? Between a guide and a seducer” (p160)

Luke 10:18

He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”

When Jane and Mr. Rochester finally embrace in love, the great horse-chestnut in the yard is split by lightning (p196)

Engaged to be married she states “My future husband was becoming to me my whole world…my hope of heaven. He stood between me and every thought of religion, as an eclipse intervenes between man and the broad sun. I could not, in those days, see God for His creature: of whom I had made an idol. (p316)

Satan is also a deceiver, and Mr. Rochester certainly was deceptive in marrying Jane, with his crazy wife in the attic.

Later in the book, she hears him call out to her, it’s a supernatural moment in the book. It’s not god, it’s her man, Mr. Rochester, who symbolizes satan. He is now blind, and dependant on her. Jane attains godhood in her religion of the self by their reunification at the end.

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vivahermione t1_je5rclj wrote

These are just some questions that came up for me. Feel free to take or toss.

  1. Jane's most significant male figures in her life are Rochester and St. John, two very different personalities. Reflect on her relationship with St. John. Why might she be drawn to him?

  2. At the climax, Jane rejects Rochester and flees the manor, but later, she has a change of heart. Why does she return to Rochester? How have her circumstances, beliefs, and feelings changed? Examine her decision through a feminist lens.

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poohfan OP t1_je6qzie wrote

Those are good questions!! Thanks!

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hockeyislife45 t1_je4ba85 wrote

I used to belong to an all woman’s book club and we only read female authors. Our book club did not survive COVID. Honestly, just do a quick search on ‘Jane Eyre book club questions’ and chose the ones you find most interesting.

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carrotwhirl t1_je4d19t wrote

I would want to give and receive different opinions and what people thought of certain scenes or quotes, less factual but a bit of Jane Eyre trivia could be fun. Good luck!

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WindySkies t1_je500qv wrote

Is Jane Eyre the proto "white feminist" protagonist? How do we reconcile her desire to give more rights to a certain type of woman at the exclusion of others? (That type of women she advocates the advancement of being those like herself - white, native-born, religious, and conservative with money.)

  • Jane often compares herself positively to other women, emphasizing her pale skin and English-ness. She disparages the foreign French and German ladies Rochester had known before.
  • The incredibly racist treatment of Bertha being from Jamaica and being Creole in origin. Rochester marrying a beautiful and racially ambitious woman is treated like a curse on his house... that only Jane can fix ofc by usurping the position of wife and birthing a 100% Caucasian male heir.
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poohfan OP t1_je50lfh wrote

One of the questions I was thinking of asking, is how much Jane would have been looked down upon, in Rochester's social setting. She was a penniless governess, who ends up with the lord of the manor. I like your line of thinking though....those are some very good thoughts!! Thanks!!

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RoseIsBadWolf t1_je7l1zx wrote

Creole in this era meant (most of the time) a white, British person born abroad. I don't think anything in the book indicates otherwise.

British people believed that being born abroad/living abroad could mess you up. But Bertha is probably white.

Charlotte Brontë's beef with the French is kind of hilarious though.

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Vio_ t1_je6ehij wrote

Jane always came off as a kind of Mary Sue to me so many times. She was just the best at everything to where I was rolling my eyes at times.

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SparklingSarcasm99 t1_je6unkk wrote

How much of Jane Eyre was influenced by the debate of equality between sexes that emerged at the end of the 1700s?
For a bit of context Mary Woolstonecaft aka Mary Shelley’s mother in her philosophical paper Vindication on the rights on women in 1792 argued “that women ought to have an education commensurate with their position in society, claiming that women are essential to the nation because they educate its children and because they could be "companions" to their husbands, rather than mere wives. Instead of viewing women as ornaments to society or property to be traded in marriage, Wollstonecraft maintains that they are human beings deserving of the same fundamental rights as men.”

Is the treatment of Bertha a woman with mental health problems cruel even by the standards of the 19th century? Debate Rochester’s motives in locking her up.

Also a good book to read that tells the story from Bertha’s perspective and gives her a voice is Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys.

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poohfan OP t1_je6v6f5 wrote

I like this! Thanks for some good discussion topics!! I kind of want to see what everyone thinks Rochester's justification for locking her up, instead of sending her away, or back to her family.

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SparklingSarcasm99 t1_je6z5wu wrote

No problem. Good luck with the discussion.

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poohfan OP t1_je71rwa wrote

With the great ideas everyone is giving me, I think we're going to have a really good one!!

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Dana07620 t1_je7a4v0 wrote

Phrase this as you will, but I'll say this...

Jane Eyre is primarily thought of as a romance, but I disagree with that idea. I think it's primary theme is about religion. Christianity permeates the book. Jane starts out almost as a pagan character who through the exposure to Helen Burns and Miss Temple (and with Brocklehurst as a counter-example) Jane develops a deep sense of Christian right and wrong which she carries with her through the rest of the story.

Edward's redemption comes through pain & suffering and his acceptance of the sinner he is. With his acceptance of God, he gets a Godly marriage with Jane, a son and partial restoration of his eyesight.

The story is bookended with two Christian martyrs: Helen and St. John. Just look at what the book closes with.

Yet, when you look at the adaptations, even the closest of them (the one with Zelah Clarke and Timothy Dalton) strips out most of the religious theme.

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RoseIsBadWolf t1_je7jro1 wrote

I think it's interesting to talk about how weird Jane Eyre is as a person. She's got strange ideas and rage and very intense love in her. Most people find her off-putting. Rochester calls her a "changeling" or a fairy a lot and he's not just being strange himself.

Rochester seems to like that brand of odd while St. John tries to crush it out of her.

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poohfan OP t1_je7khjz wrote

That's a way to look at it. That could make an interesting discussion! Thanks!

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MinimumProcess1346 t1_je6vpsr wrote

-Rochester's wife is Jane's double -Is The story has a semi-happy ending or is it happy?

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Sea-Bottle6335 t1_je7gtcv wrote

For an interesting take look into Jasper Fiord’s The Eyre Affair. It looks at the book from many views. Funny too.

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poohfan OP t1_je7kkol wrote

I'll check it out...thanks for the recommendation!!

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