Toxic book fans

Submitted by sunforthemoon t3_1209q6f in books

I posted on my tiktok a few months ago about my dislike for the book Girl In Pieces by Kathleen Glasgow. I’ve posted on here about it as well but the replies on here were so much nicer and mature.

Obviously Girl In Pieces is a “BookTok” book and therefore has a LOT of chronically online fans.

I posted my video not saying anything rude about the author or anything, just expressing that I didn’t like the book and found certain parts harmful and triggering, as someone who struggled and continues to do so with mental illness.

The comments SLATED me. Almost every comment was something along the lines of ‘this book isn’t for you it’s for REAL mentally ill people’ and being extremely hurtful and personal about my mental state and gatekeeping the book?

I just wondered if anyone else had experienced things like this from toxic book fans.

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ComicsNBigBooks t1_jdgfbin wrote

Not just from book fans, but pretty much fans of anything. I'm more selective with how frequently I interact or even what I share my opinion on these days, but fortunately, the older I get, the harder it is for me to be emotionally invested in online strangers' opinions about my opinion. And I say that not to be dismissive, but rather as someone who used to be very sensitive regarding this.

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FranticPonE t1_jdgrpvw wrote

I love caring less and less about random online people's opinions. I wish I could care less still, that whatever nonsense booktok has glommed onto wouldn't even show up when I'm trying to find a new book to read. Searching through Amazon for something (just now, I showed up here to continue the search) and I suspect Booktok have boosted this one authors books to the top of the heap. Some author you've never heard of having over 4.5 stars and almost 10k reviews for every single book they've written, all of which were published in the last year? Oh goody "fans".

It always helps me to remember that "fan" is just a shortening of "fanatic".

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mysteryofthefieryeye t1_jdgi7w7 wrote

Exactly. I stopped giving out book and movie recommendations probably 20 years ago, it's just a waste of time. I like what I like and that's the end of it.

But I'll happily seek out from others when I ask for it. But if someone just tells me to see a book or movie, it's not gonna happen.

That said, luckily I've never experienced my opinion being "slated" (I think OP meant slayed)

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Fun-Badger3724 t1_jdgpjl9 wrote

Nah, slated is a common term in the UK for slayed.

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CopperknickersII t1_jdh2qho wrote

'Slated' means 'severely criticised or verbally attacked'. 'Slayed' in the UK would have a totally different meaning - it means something that makes you laugh until you nearly die.

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Fun-Badger3724 t1_jdv1uei wrote

Yeah, I was being lazy. This guy definitely cares more about accuracy.

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pornplz22526 t1_jdiln7s wrote

I guess I feel the same... if somebody tells me what to read or watch, I likely never will in part because it feels like an expectation. On the other hand, I still keep a Goodreads going because I sometimes check things out based on what my friends are reading. We don't ever actually communicate on that platform, but it's in some ways almost like a quiet conversation is still going on.

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Insufferablelol t1_jdgouly wrote

I think your first issue here is using tiktok

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Mo_Dice t1_jdiou4j wrote

Yeah, I avoid the toxicity of social media by just not going there.

100% success rate.

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OneGoodRib t1_jdk6ess wrote

Maybe it's because I'm 200 years old but I don't see the appeal of "booktok" at all. Just saw a "not like other girls" today that was like "your booktok is Coleen whateverhername is. My booktok is Dostoevsky. We are not the same" and I was just like "both are equally stupid". (not the authors and books, just the concept)

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Seevalk t1_jdgocz9 wrote

I don't think it's not so much toxic book fans as opposed to you expecting a lot of maturity from TikTok. Get off TikTok, your life will be all the better for it.

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Superb-Draft t1_jdgt7f8 wrote

Exactly what is the point of this post. "I was seeking validation on TikTok and didn't get it, so I came to Reddit for sympathy instead"

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sunforthemoon OP t1_jdh4tlb wrote

I didn’t seek validation thanks! I knew exactly that my opinion probably wasn’t going to be popular as it’s a book with a somewhat cult following, and after the hate I got which was extremely personal I wondered if anyone else had experienced this! I don’t need sympathy, I’m a big girl. However it just struck me as abnormal as I’ve never experienced a tirade of negative opinions which were all extremely personal and not well reasoned or respectful.

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nyet-marionetka t1_jdh7pfj wrote

That kind of stuff happens on platforms like TikTok, tumblr, and Twitter, where a group forms a silo and sic the group on people they don’t like, like angry chickens pecking an injured chicken to death. It happens over any topic with enough fans. Probably more with TV shows because the audiences are bigger.

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Superb-Draft t1_jdh9e3t wrote

It happens on Reddit too, in fact I would say here it is worse because the hivemind downvotes any dissenting opinion so it can't even be seen. At least on other places you have to actually type out a response.

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LooseDoctor t1_jdhz1c1 wrote

Agreed, it’s happened to me on Reddit! It made me not want to participate in book discussions at all on here. Anyone that thinks Reddit is somehow a better version of social media just cause it’s their favorite needs to do some introspection.

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ComicsNBigBooks t1_jdhzx2q wrote

Reddit is the least awful, but it is by no means a place for regular civil discourse haha, so I agree there.

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Alaira314 t1_jdipp9l wrote

The other platforms make dissent visible. Even if 30 people are screaming at me in the tumblr notes, I can see that 20 people clicked the little heart to like my post. But on reddit, I'm sitting at a -10 and I don't know if that's because ten people disagree with me or because 30 people disagree and 20 people agree. The little controversial dagger can be helpful with this, but only if the values are very close.

Add in the downvoting issue, and it's very easy to bury people with the feedback threat of "shut your mouth if you don't want to wind up muted" which...is what downvotes are. Subreddit karma is used in the crowd control official mod tool to auto-collapse your posts and send them to the bottom of the thread to die. A new user who comes to a subreddit and, say, wants to discuss ableism in RPGs(because they are themselves disabled and are interested in the subject) only to be met with heavy downvotes because reddit hates the word ableism is going to just walk away from that subreddit. And so views continue uncontested.

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OneGoodRib t1_jdk6ryu wrote

It's funny if you point out that dissenting opinions get downvoted, and then you get downvoted for pointing it out.

Don't ever tell r/movies that they overwhelmingly hate anything aimed at females of any age with like 3 exceptions.

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pornplz22526 t1_jdilx40 wrote

Reddit is still the better of the social platforms for reasonable discussion, but it gets worse with every platform that bans porn...

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nyet-marionetka t1_jdhdnuc wrote

No, you don’t get it on reddit. That could happen from cross-subreddit posting if someone points a community in your direction, but the admins crack down on that. A bunch of individual people stumbling on your comment and disagreeing with you isn’t the same as a person sending their followers to stalk you online, trash talk you in your comments, and post their own stuff targeted at you. Reddit is generally a pretty civil place by comparison to tiktok and tumblr.

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Alaira314 t1_jdiyi9r wrote

Outside websites(discord, etc) are used to coordinate brigading now, since the admin crackdowns.

I have also received sustained harassment over time from comments made on reddit. It's happened twice. I forget what I did to offend the one time, but the other was that I said someone should consider adding a content warning to their post because of something very unpleasant dropped out of nowhere near the end of it. Both times they followed me to other subs and would reply to my posts there, with stuff that was clearly off but not rule breaking. The reason I remember the one so well is that person was replying with the thing I'd said bothered me, no context just the words copy-pasted from their post. The reason I didn't block them was because it's not my first rodeo and I wanted to make sure it wasn't escalating without my knowledge(at the time the block tool only made their posts invisible to me, and allowed them to continue interacting with posts I'd made, so I wouldn't know if for example they doxed me).

I don't tiktok or twitter, but I've never had to deal with things like that on tumblr. 🤷‍♀️

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beameup19 t1_jdhbrcj wrote

Downvoting you for using “hive mind”

People are individuals regardless of which platforms they use. If you got a lot of down votes, it isn’t the fault of a “hive mind” lol you just likely have shit takes and shit opinions

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iwasjusttwittering t1_jdhey5n wrote

Echo chambers: exist.

The Reddit format also favors hype and content with quick turnaround. (I'm comparing it to classic forums where you can have long discussions that last more than a few hours/days but weeks/months.)

In my experience (years in places such as /r/mechanicalkeyboards), it's very easy to get downvoted for posting only factual information (yes, not being snarky either), not to mention skepticism wrt latest hypetrain.

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OneGoodRib t1_jdk6n6d wrote

All my exposure to tiktok is youtube videos that are compilations of funny animal tiktoks and the handful of stuff that was made by popular viners when tiktok first opened (when it was still musica.ly).

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ComicsNBigBooks t1_jdhzo6p wrote

I mean, why not both? But yes, my life is definitely better since deleting the TikTok app.

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echotheborder t1_jdgm3bz wrote

This is why we don't listen to teenagers.

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sunforthemoon OP t1_jdh4v3e wrote

all the comments were from like 13/14 year olds it was a bit alarming that they’re reading books like that!

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Lofty_quackers t1_jdhc6qh wrote

At that age, my classmates and I were into V.C. Andrews books back in the day.

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mooimafish33 t1_jdjm9rk wrote

I feel like a lot of people forget that kids know what's up, adults just find it uncomfortable so they act like they don't.

Myself and all my friends knew about the existence of sex, murder, rape, racism, suicide, all that by like 3rd grade. Obviously we didn't know the specifics, but we knew of it and made dumb kid jokes.

I read the Da Vinci Code in like 5th grade, and while it is not exactly high art, it does have mature content.

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AIpheratz t1_jdgkkfr wrote

What did you expect from the tiktok audience?

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Kidog1_9 t1_jdgvd27 wrote

Imo the book fans on tiktok are just a bunch of 9 year old who read big words they didn't understand and decided the book was deep and cool.

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theworldsucksbigA t1_jdhqksp wrote

>big words they didn't understand and decided the book was deep and cool.

That about sum up tiktok as a whole.

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jawnbaejaeger t1_jdh6bdi wrote

BookTok is for teenagers who are just discovering progressive vocabulary and ideology, without yet having any of the nuance to be anything more than moral purity crusaders.

In other words, it's a toxic fucking cesspool, and the quicker you're away from it, the better.

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SSVicious t1_jdiqt07 wrote

Admittedly it is most people that have this issue. Look at ordinary folks who are either liberal or conservative. Most unthinkingly parrot the vocabulary of ideas that often have more nuance or substance. They also have little understanding of the other side’s argument.

It’s frightening in its polarization.

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MrC99 t1_jdgzc6k wrote

Because those people were most likely children/teenagers who cannot fathom people not liking their things.

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ddiioonnaa t1_jdgqsyd wrote

I posted an opinion of mine about The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho and people in the comments say that I was just hating it because it was popular even though I completely stated why I did not like reading the book. Some people are toxic when you have a different opinion than them or the majority. And that applies to any community.

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MedusaExceptWithCats t1_jdh8xa5 wrote

Is The Alchemist still popular? It's a classic I guess, but I recall everyone hating it back in high school.

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Superb-Draft t1_jdiocjb wrote

Well somebody makes a post on it literally every day on this sub, so it is clearly still selling...

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OneGoodRib t1_jdk6w2a wrote

I didn't think it was ever popular at all, just that people knew of it.

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colechristensen t1_jdguod4 wrote

Don’t share your trauma with internet strangers, you’re just as likely to get validated as you are to get trolled. Especially when it’s related to a thing with “fans”. Fanatics are indeed irritating.

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TheChingerChangerNig t1_jdgrs2c wrote

I think it's a better weird to group us book readers under the same umbrella as those people you describe.

That said, it's an extremely worrying trend that mental illnesses have become some sort of fashion statement or badge of honor like this.

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Amphy64 t1_jdinx2r wrote

Yeah, I'm not about to jump on someone for just not liking a book, but mental illness is neither a cute quirk nor an everyday emotional struggle, and people co-opting them causes actual problems for those of us with them. This doesn't really seem like it's an issue with a difference of opinion over a book at all.

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PumpkinPieIsGreat t1_jdlq7zl wrote

People have been doing it for YEARS. I first noticed it with OCD. "My OCD!" (Self diagnosed) as if it is this quirky fun thing.

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NeonHopeSomewhere t1_jdgvddf wrote

You didn’t know this would happen? On TikTok?

It’s a teenage clique with a really skewed version of progressivism. It’s high school for everyone. I’m not trying to invalidate your experience, but the fact you didn’t know if this is going to happen it’s quite surprising. Especially booktok, damn that place is rough, Colleen Hoover supporting ass

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Artsyshoelace t1_jdh484q wrote

This is why I deleted tiktok and left their "booktok" community. The people on there are, as you said, chronically online and are so quick to criticize.

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kRe4ture t1_jdh4j9q wrote

Get off TikTok, that platform is detrimental for your mental health and attention span, also it’s entire dopamine cycle is addictive af…

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OneGoodRib t1_jdk7l51 wrote

Also there's the whole "the Chinese government is using it to spy on Americans" issue.

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kRe4ture t1_jdkilum wrote

Yes also true, didn‘t mention it because it doesn’t influence you personally in the short term at least

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hali26 t1_jdhbwqd wrote

One thing Reddit taught me, or at least dedicated subreddits, every fanbase is toxic af. You think it’s gunna be this nice place of people uniting over a common love, but it’s just miserable dweebs getting inexplicably mad at every little detail. That’s when I unfollowed most of em and just keep to myself. I think that’s why I prefer Instagram these days; you don’t have to deal with as much trolls

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OneGoodRib t1_jdk7hct wrote

I've actually managed to find a bunch of fandom subs that are really nice (some of them do have toxic moments from time to time). The worst scandal in the subs I visit was an issue with people sexualizing characters who at the time were not older than 15 in-story. The mods very quickly stepped in and were just like "stop doing that". People would be like "hey some of us fans are also minors!" but it's like, but some aren't and don't want to accidentally run into innuendos about minors randomly.

It's weird how some fandom subs are way worse than the others in terms of toxicity. r/gilmoregirls is basically always "UM THIS CHARACTER IS LITERALLY SATAN AND YOU'RE HITLER IF YOU LIKE THEM" which is annoying as hell.

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PumpkinPieIsGreat t1_jdlq065 wrote

I like Gilmore Girls because it shows that people aren't perfect. We fuck up, we hurt people, we make dumb choices like dropping out.

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Choice_Mistake759 t1_jdgwegq wrote

Even here there is some baffling commenters who seem to think readers should not criticize ("bash") books, or with comments like "It's not my fav too but how bout u just say it wasn't ur type nd move on w/o dissing on it?" (notice spelling... this in response to somebody saying a book was one of the worst they ever read) or lots more of the implied thing "if you can not say something nice, do not say anything". I think tiktok might encourage that kind of toxic positivity way more.

There really is a mindset that it is almost like unfair of readers to dare think a book is objectively bad, or worse than the average they read or one of the worst books they read. In case it hurts the feelings of those who loved it, or even worse, the author

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pornplz22526 t1_jdineek wrote

I mean, part of the problem really is the insistence that your taste is objectively superior. You can criticize something while still acknowledging that your opinion is only that, and without using combative language that alienates people of differing tastes.

From this comment, it seems like you're too far to the other extreme.

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Choice_Mistake759 t1_jdipzgd wrote

Well, how far is too far for one extreme, is certainly subjective, and you should have put disclaimers yourself your metric is of course just subjective, and as such it is only, like, your opinion.

And anyway, the opinion quoted was not in reply to me, it was to somebody stating somebody which IMO (yay for people who say that) that it was one of the worst books THEY themselves had ever read. Which seemed more than fair. If it was unfairly combative and alienated people of differing tastes (who by the way could not or did not bother to spell) that seemed fair enough and that is the people I want to hang around digitally with.

And because I was replying to replied to /u/pornplz22526 and blocked me automatically, here goes my reply to them!

>>"This is an opinion" is always the default.

I think it is unnecessary when a statement is "one of the worst books I ever read" (or such phrasing), since it is clearly a relative statement and to do with what the person saying it had read.

Also if always the default (and it is) surely one does not need to type it all the time? Or maybe we can get a short cut, maybe reddit can nicely fill some autotext for us so we can add "this is an opinion" is added automatically for all posts, for those who need to be reminded of it.

>The rest of your comment is a confused mess.

Oh, sorry! I see you blocked me so I am sure you will be spared ever more needing to think about anything I might have to say and will not ever encounter any opinion slightly diverging from yours. Very on topic actually, now I think of it.

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pornplz22526 t1_jdit67x wrote

It's not a matter of disclaimers, it's a matter of not asserting objectivity. "This is an opinion" is always the default.

The rest of your comment is a confused mess.

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7ootles t1_jdh6ex2 wrote

They get that way. Similarly, communities around books that have been adapted can be pretty shitty too. r/brakebills became a total nightmare when The Magicians TV series became big, accepting the series blindly and almost wholly rejecting the trilogy of books it draws from. Those people claim to be fans, but some can be really shitty about the books. I was an OG fan from when the first book came out, was a member of the tiny little Facebook fan group from when it started - but when the series came out and the fangirls started squeeing over it, I was removed for "toxic behaviour" after saying I felt the adaptation missed the point the books were getting at. An admin even messaged me after removing me, claiming I was upsetting other fans.

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Dazzling-Ad4701 t1_jdgmuje wrote

>I just wondered if anyone else had experienced things like this from toxic book fans.

I don't use other online media, so I've been spared your kind of experience. but very occasionally in here I've encountered someone being startlingly hostile and personal over some opinion that I've expressed. there are certain books and/or authors that are just ordained emperors: you deviate from the communal admiration of their outfits at your peril.

it rattles me too, if knowing that cheers you any ;-)

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Autarch_Kade t1_jdgy3sa wrote

Can't imagine that the people who willingly install Chinese spyware are the best at critical thought.

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purpleseashorse t1_jdh2hne wrote

That funny cause the book is a solid 3-4 stars and really dragged in the middle. It was also super triggering as you said and the romance was quite dull. I only really liked it cause I liked her other book! But your thoughts and opinion is valid. You’re allowed to hate and dislike books! Let me be ur tiktok friend so we can be hateful together LOL

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AwHellNawFetaCheese t1_jdi0p78 wrote

You put out a negative review about something and got flamed for it, you’re not minding your own business you’re inviting that conflict.

Does it in any way excuse their actions and comments? Not at all but don’t share publicly if you can’t handle the blowback.

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Hour-Mission9430 t1_jdj8r90 wrote

For absolutely every topic, you will have toxic, gatekeeping fans. They're usually quite loud like that, but realistically a small percentage. Unsurprising that an interweb based work with majority online readers would have a higher percentage of exclusively interweb troll fans. I hope they didn't drag you down too much.

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EarthBoundMisfitEye t1_jdh2atq wrote

Tik tok hate brigade is on another level. They tend to have almost an obsessive call out culture. They love finding a tiny human flaw that doesn't need correction and massively pile on telling you how to correct it to be pleasing to all. Any deviation from the group woke-think on that app makes you some kind of 'phobe' or 'problematic '

I'd call them a tough crowd but more accurately they are hair trigger out rage masters is all. Clicks and engagement is what it's all about on that app.

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Mindless-Average2275 t1_jdh7o36 wrote

This is a natural byproduct of our online society, and it's not just about books.

Almost the entire planet has access to the internet, and whatever you post on social media (including Reddit) exposes you to potentially millions of comments and responses. Not all of these comments are going to be nice, and they sting because we expect and prefer positive feedback.

A few weeks ago, I posted something on a romantic novels subreddit. My post got immediately locked, and most of the comments were accusing me of things I didn't say. At first, I was a bit offended because I didn't expect a negative response. But then I realized that the community there is just very sensitive to critique, and they were projecting their insecurities onto my post. Other subreddits revolve around criticizing the main topic to death, and any positive comments get downvoted because it's all about the snark.

In conclusion, people will have their opinions, and some of them will be aggressive. This is the nature of social media (and I hope it will evolve into something more friendly/ less toxic). In other words, don't let this get to you and keep doing what you think is right- even if other people disagree with you.

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Randomwhitelady2 t1_jdh7tro wrote

Reading is so subjective. I’m never bothered in the least when someone’s opinion on a book differs from mine. It’s like fighting over chocolate ice cream being the best flavor. Pointless!

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Electronic_Trifle_60 t1_jdhepg9 wrote

Word of advice - don't use Tik Tok.

I am totally baffled when someone tells me that they do use it, for anything.

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EricBlair101 t1_jdika1w wrote

I get sent to downvote hell every time I mention that Ulysses sucks and James Joyce was a weenie.

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bigtimephonk t1_jdjj15w wrote

I thought a thread titled Toxic book fans must be about Sanderson fans. That Wired article is on-point and they absolutely can't handle it, or any other critique of his work. It's what idolizing a person does to you. He's great, but he's not perfect and neither is his writing. I think because they idolize him they cannot fully evaluate his work, resulting in a fragile, slavish appreciation. Which is why they meet any criticism with hostility.

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Humble-Roll-8997 t1_jdh0h5m wrote

I won’t read booktok books and I deleted TikTok A long time ago. After Verity, which I didn’t like, I won’t read boosted books. I mean c’mon. It has 200K reviews which is ridiculous.

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slimpickins757 t1_jdh5bu6 wrote

I LOVE Stephen King and most of his fans are great but I’ve experienced some weird reactions in that subreddit. There’s definitely a large portion that get WAY too upset over book suggestion posts specifically to a point people are snide and rude to those who ask for them which I’ll never understand. It’s their topic in the fandom that causes the “I’m tired of these posts” posts

Edit: forgot why I brought all this up, but essentially every fandom has a toxic portion ESPECIALLY on the internet

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MedusaExceptWithCats t1_jdh9bi9 wrote

I will say...it's super annoying when the same posts come up over and over again on any sub. A quick search would produce the info. they need without flooding the sub with the exact same post.

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slimpickins757 t1_jdh9hxe wrote

It’s not like a “look what I discovered” that’s been discovered before and shared a billion times. It’s a fresh discussion over the authors books and each person’s personal preferences as to their different stories and each one is gonna be different based off each persons reading history/preferences

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MedusaExceptWithCats t1_jdh9mzy wrote

Fresh discussions are fine, sure. You mentioned book suggestion posts within the subreddit about one specific author, so I was commenting on instances like that. There's no reason to have multiple posts like that.

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pornplz22526 t1_jdinvkf wrote

The suggestions are going to change as the new people join and old people leave and new books are published, though...

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slimpickins757 t1_jdhawhj wrote

How are those not fresh discussions? Each one is going to be different than the last based off the individuals reading preferences and history. It’s very different than “look I found a detail I didn’t notice before” post that’s just repeated over and over and won’t spark anything new to be said other than “yeah found that too”. A suggestion post allows people to express the different things they enjoy about the different books an author has written which are going to differ person to person and no last post will ever be able to capture all those different reasons

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MedusaExceptWithCats t1_jdhc7pb wrote

No worries, I think we just disagree. Maybe I'm on Reddit more or something, but I find the same stale discussions on any subreddit that is about a very specific topic.

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slimpickins757 t1_jdhtonn wrote

I agree there’s stale subjects on any subreddit, I just disagree that book suggestions are one. And regardless that’s not the point, the point is that there’s often people within a sub who are quite toxic about this topic. There’s a civil way to handle the things you dislike whether it be to ignore it or voice your opinion respectfully as I feel we’ve managed to do, but there’s undeniably people incapable of that. Especially on the internet

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APwilliams88 t1_jdhfmq2 wrote

Huge King fan myself, and I honestly had to leave the King sub because I found the post to be way too repetitive. That sub has a huge problem with that, in my opinion. It got old. I never told people to not post that stuff though. That's their business. I just got sick of reading the exact same post every time I was on the sub, so I left.

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pornplz22526 t1_jdio50o wrote

Honestly an issue with most brand/franchise "communities." It's why I stick to general subs.

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slimpickins757 t1_jdhu3wb wrote

I respect your opinion and while I don’t agree to their frequency that could be any number of things. And regardless responses like yours aren’t what this post is about. It’s about the people who are not able to do that and exert their distaste on the sub/poster. As I said to the other person I was responding to, the issue I have is not that people have a certain type of post they dislike seeing, but the toxic responses that often occur around those topics

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LooseDoctor t1_jdhz911 wrote

It’s wild to me how many people in these comments think the only people that use tiktok are teenagers. My FYP is exclusively older adults. It’s just a social media app, there’s no max age limit for using it lmao.

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shaggy_gosh t1_jdjzr5l wrote

So what? Someone has to be autistic to like a certain book?!?! what the fucking fuck

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priceQQ t1_jdkk231 wrote

Who cares? If it is trash and you say it is trash, then you did your part. It sounds like you also got some attention, for better or for worse.

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sylfeden t1_jdha4lz wrote

Well, there is no "right way" to be mentally ill. Basicly the concensus is that something is wrong with you. Where as sane people got it right.

I got several writers who are considered very good I simply don't like. Best example may be Salinger. Ex loves him, I just don't feel all that moved. I can see he writes well, very well even. The topics and ideas are fine, good even, and I am simply not moved or all that interested. He on his side don't like Gene Wolfe, I don't hold it against him. He tried to snatch my GOULD'S BOOK of FISH when he left. Guess we agree on some books. He had to buy his own copy.

Ignore those toxic people as well as you can, and read stuff you like. Talk to people who can discuss the books without toxicity.

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Amphy64 t1_jdiohl1 wrote

There are diagnostic criteria for mental illness, and many are linked to physical conditions and causes, it's not meant to be something arbitrary.

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ArgentStar t1_jdhb18h wrote

Fandoms often contain people who are genuinely fanatical and the structure of social media platforms like TikTok fosters a lack of reasoned debate with people of different opinions. So you get the so-called "echo chamber" effect. And mental illness causes particularly strong feelings for a variety of reasons, many of them very valid. So, if you combine those things you have a recipe for toxic elements to magnify their worst traits exponentially. Especially when it comes to people with a dissenting view.

I've struggled with moderate to severe mental illness for over 20 years and more than once I've had to catch myself from falling into that automatically defensive stance whenever someone disagrees. And I didn't get into social media until my mid-20s. Like you said, people who are constantly online from a young age can easily find aggressive defensiveness being their default/only coping mechanism. Even people suggesting a more moderate response to disagreements can get torn to pieces for supposedly implying they're "making light" of the severity of people's lived experiences. Social media is amazing, but we're still very much in our infancy as an "online species" and it really fucking shows whenever you toss a little dissenting chum in the waters!

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NickiChaos t1_jdhcux7 wrote

Joe Abercrombie fans...

His writing sucks. Fans defend him vehemently.

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Mr-Reanimator t1_jdhi04t wrote

Honestly, idk if 'chronically online' would describe them nearly as well as just 'super toxic and mean', but there are certainly people like this out there.

I think that it can come from many angles, too, which kind of sucks. There are toxic, elitist, gatekeepers that are super into literature in general... and there are toxic gatekeepers who swarm around a given author or franchise (not to name any examples lol). I'm sure that if you really wanna get into it, there's more than just these two levels of toxicity in literature circles, but it's a heck of a thing.

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irevuo t1_jdhke2d wrote

It's the internet, so people will argue about everything.

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Traditional_Lead_97 t1_jdia822 wrote

It's not exclusive to booktok enthusiasts, fans like this are everywhere. Football fans in my country literally destroy buses when their team loses and beat up anyone who wears the other team's merch.

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Deliriums_Fish t1_jdie2z7 wrote

The problem is people make something their entire personality so when you say it's not for you they take it as a personal offense/affront.

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DadooDragoon t1_jdjgyfp wrote

It happens with just about anything if you care about interacting with strangers on the internet. Some places are worse than others (Reddit is not great, but not the worst). It's just a byproduct of the anonymity of the internet and, as you said, chronically online people.

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Elivenya t1_jdjxkyy wrote

It's tik tok...the dumpster of the internet

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Wizardof1000Kings t1_jdn8k5c wrote

I avoid fan groups for any given book, series, or author except when I want to discuss a book or other work. The internet is full of stans who have picked some series, books, or even bibliographies of various authors to be the hill they defend to their dying breath. Let them do what makes them happy and go do what makes you happy.

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[deleted] t1_jdhag2n wrote

I've gotten this same sort of vitriol from Twilight fans when I first got into the book series. Since I've always an eye for critical thinking on literature, large aspects of the story were either nonsensical or outright disturbing to me and when I brought this up, I got so viciously attacked that I ended up having to delete my social medias. For a then 16-year-old in year 11, that was pretty devastating for me.

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inyolonepine t1_jdhj4ul wrote

Toxic fandom is awful. Gatekeeping fandoms too.

Not specifically book related, but an artist I follow on IG posted something a year or two about Star Wars and the new Obi-Wan show. I forget the exact question, but it was along the lines of “who’s excited about more Skywalker stuff?” I said not me. For a literal universe, why is everything centered around this one family.

I’ve never reported so many accounts before. I got some vicious DMs about my response.

I know Star Wars fans can be pretty bad, but JFC.

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PaddlesOwnCanoe t1_jdivolo wrote

Not yet, but I don't do much social media.

It is a shame that every disagreement online seems to degenerate into mean-spirited insults. The only thing I can suggest is that when you have a book you didn't like, that you might frame your remarks with something like "I understand why this story is important" or "I think it was very well written" before explaining why it isn't your cup of tea. Sign off with something like "It's wonderful that this book has helped so many, it's just not for me" and leave it at that.

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kaeyawife t1_jdjzxkv wrote

ppl don’t want to accept their faves authors or books are problematic. I had this same issue with diversity in books… You’re entitled to your own opinion, but it becomes invalid as soon as you offend someone or a harmless community

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nyet-marionetka t1_jdh7ei5 wrote

TikTok is like Youtube comments, but worse.

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cutiecat565 t1_jdhfynj wrote

How old are you? Anything mostly used by teenagers is going to be "interesting".

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throne_of_worms t1_jdhakjx wrote

Why does Reddit hate TikTok so much? Genuinely curious.

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Hartastic t1_jdkxt91 wrote

Book reddit and Booktok are just both really different communities despite both nominally being book-centric.

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throne_of_worms t1_jdl3can wrote

I don’t even mean booktok, just TikTok in general. Like look, I can’t even ask about it without getting downvoted lol. I just don’t know where the vitriol comes from. Like is it just the app in general or something oddly specific that I’ve never heard of.

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[deleted] t1_jdge4u1 wrote

[deleted]

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sunforthemoon OP t1_jdge7r5 wrote

I’m aware of that! But being on Reddit has exposed me to actual nice and well reasoning people so it was a shock to the system to be curb stomped lmao

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Load_Altruistic t1_jdgedj5 wrote

Being on Reddit exposed you to well-reasoning people? Reddit is a cesspit

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austarter t1_jdghi0y wrote

Reddit has the best content moderation of any of the big social sites. Because it's mostly done by transparent votes. I've always found reddit, with a curated approach, to be the most positive place on the internet other than group chats with friends.

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sunforthemoon OP t1_jdgek2i wrote

honestly pretty much all of the comments I’ve had on my posts have been well reasoned and without a trace of childishness or mutiny!! Obviously people have different opinions to mine but they never get personal in the comments! It may just be the communities I’m in but I’ve never been disgusted by a reddit comment I’ve seen on a post I’ve made :) but i do hear a lot about reddit being a cesspit hahaha

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BillEvans4eva t1_jdgyqba wrote

where did you find the nice and well reasoning people on here? lol

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nekosake2 t1_jdgtizv wrote

agree with most of your points but just want to point out that "chronically online" is a dumb insult in this hyper connected world we live in.

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