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[deleted] t1_it8effd wrote



vanalla t1_it871st wrote

I'm glad you've read the book, and you're waking up to the coup taking place. There's a reason all credible scholars of the period have been ringing alarm bells warning about trump since 2016.

The only thing I'd argue with is that antifa is not an organization. It's a movement or an idea. It is a portmanteau of anti-fascism, or the ideology of being against fascism, the ideology of a central dictator governing autocratically by suppressing opposition and belief in a hierarchy of races.

There is no current Proud Boys equivalent on the left of the political spectrum.


Appropriate_Record36 t1_it8oqka wrote

AlL cReDiBlE scholars When you start stating that only the people that agree with you are right or smart or credible, guess what you sound like?


Catsandscotch t1_it8835t wrote

I agree with you wholeheartedly, both in the parallels you draw and your sense of fear. I hate to resort to cliche, but "those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it." You make an interesting point that you believe groups today are intentionally copying the tactics of the Nazis. I suspect you are correct. Interestingly, the Nazis themselves looked to the southern states and their Jim Crow laws for inspiration in creating their own anti-Jewish legislation.

I am curious if you found the book a worthwhile read? It's a beast of a book and that is just part 1 of 3.


oldhippy1947 t1_it894hg wrote

I've read all three. The middle one (The Third Reich in Power) was the slowest and driest, but still worth the read. The last one was a struggle, but only because of page after page of Nazi murders. Not just the Jews, but mentally disabled, Romani, Poles, Ukrainians, Soviet Slavs, Homosexuals, people with disablities, political prisoners, leftists. It just seemed to go on and on. And it continued right to the end.


Rymbeld OP t1_it89rh8 wrote

I highly recommend it. I could have written an essay to post, but it's too much. You can understand that "there are parallels" but this book was so detailed that I came away thinking that what's happening today is far more serious and dangerous that we are willing to admit. Once they really take power, it's over. The nazis toned things down until they got control, then things started moving very fast. They opened Dachau in 1933 for political opponents. They orchestrated the destruction of ALL labor unions in ONE DAY just months after using power. Yet they never won the popular vote and their support had been waning, until they illegally rewrote the constitution.


Catsandscotch t1_it8uibd wrote

Thanks for the info. I think I'll check it out. Although I have no idea why I want to be even more anxious than I am now.


Devadander t1_it8cod1 wrote

Yeah. Nasty path in front of us. Vote midterms this November


Rymbeld OP t1_it8dvhm wrote

Voting didn't save Germany.


daiLlafyn t1_it8es4d wrote

Hey, don't bother then.


Rymbeld OP t1_it8jq86 wrote

I'm not quite that cynical yet, but they already control the judiciary, and once they rule on the ISL case--and we all know how they will rule--our votes will become worthless. That's the last hurdle. And our votes now can't affect the court.


Devadander t1_it94ea9 wrote

Very correct, but still vote. Let them destroy democracy, don’t make it easy on them by not participating


Rymbeld OP t1_it996sc wrote

I just early voted! Feels good man


daiLlafyn t1_it8jwia wrote

Best of luck. I wish we in the UK could choose our next leader.


nts4906 t1_it8r5tf wrote

You would still choose poorly 😂


daiLlafyn t1_it9yqdf wrote

And this from the country that voted in The Don! :D All in love and fun - I can't imagine either of us chose poorly, but unless our citizens get off their fat arses and vote, both countries will be sipping on the foul chalice of fascism, thinking it's the Holy Grail.


nts4906 t1_it9yvoj wrote

No you are right. The majority of people straight up are not capable of even voting in their own best interest. It is beyond their programming.


Mysterious_Attempt22 t1_it8rtbs wrote

>Best of luck. I wish we in the UK could choose our next leader.

You can choose a capitalist who causes the rise of fascism, or a diet coke fascist.

Welcome to every single US election. Does RoCk tHa VoTe feel significant to you, now?


seanrok t1_it86s22 wrote

Dolchstoss im Rücken part 2


Rymbeld OP t1_it873hb wrote

Oh good you're right, I didn't even make that connection with stop the steal.


Vic_Hedges t1_it8ck3f wrote

Mussolini is the stronger parallel. The leaders of the Jan 6th insurrection were absolutely modelling it on the fascist March on Rome.

Groups like the proud boys and their ilk are consciously trying to follow the script of Mussolini's Black Shirts


thefuzzylogic t1_it8p9ez wrote

>The leaders of the Jan 6th insurrection were absolutely modelling it on the fascist March on Rome.

And just a couple of weeks ago the literal descendants of Mussolini and his party won a majority in the Italian elections, mainly by tempering their language in public to be less inflammatory to moderates while still using coded words and imagery to incite the far right.


[deleted] t1_it8dqpz wrote



RD__III t1_it8ol2v wrote

This is a common theme amongst populist uprisings. Another interesting book is "The Storm Before the Storm" by Mike Duncan. It has a lot of parallels as well, especially regarding the Gracchus brothers and the Social Wars. History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.


Rymbeld OP t1_it8pda5 wrote

Yeah if been thinking a lot about the Roman Republic before reading this book. My degree was in classics, so I'm quite familiar with individual politicians having gangs battle it out on the streets


[deleted] t1_it8copf wrote



histprofdave t1_it8mjxy wrote

You might want to check out the podcast, Ultra, that details an actual far right plot (or series of plots) to overthrow the government in 1940. It's not fiction or alternative history--it really happened, and far right agents with Nazi connections blew up several US munitions plants.


ehollen1328 t1_it8h40t wrote

I agree that Hitler and Nazi comparisons get overused, but I also think it’s worth noting that there are several different “Hitlers.” Like, there’s the Hitler in 39 I believe, who tempered his anti-Semitic language at times because he still had concerns about international opinion then (though of course he’d already written Mein Keimpf). It’s important to note that, to me, it feels like the Nazi horror rolled out by degrees, and that often when we talk about him it’s with the hindsight of everything that comes after. But Hitler when he’s rising to power (I’ve read the Evan’s book as well) looks eerily similar at times to what’s happening in our country today. The way some people are willing to overlook the base pandering of the Republican Party to xenophobia and racism because of an “economic situation.” The way Hitler manufactured a “crisis” with the Reichtstag fire to get emergency powers, and told a lie about how the German army was “stabbed in the back” and lost World War 1, and the way he fed on popular resentments and economic woes. And, I believe the Nazis only won 40% of the vote, and also had their own paramilitary group (the brown shirts) which the Republicans have today.

Idk. I’m a pretty amateur historian who likes to read a lot, but I guess what I’m saying is that I think it makes sense to draw the parallels between what’s happening now and Hitler and the Nazis early on, because the horror that was unleashed after happened after certain safeguards started to be removed, when certain things became permissible and certain men attained power, if that makes sense.

And, one of the reasons why I’m so angry (and why studying history has made me so jaded) is because I feel like you start seeing things on a timeline of like potentiality and what’s to come. It’s perfectly possible that the people you see screaming at rallies and worshipping Trump, given the right circumstances, would be capable of the types of evils the Nazi system perpetrated (also see Rwanda). Of course, the opposite could be true, there could be people who are super into Trump that would resist evil when and if it’s ever brought about - one of the difficulties of human nature I think is that we never really know who we are until a situation or circumstance arises in which action is called for. But it is scary how far fringe beliefs once thought unacceptable by the mainstream party has filtered into Republicans discourse. Hell, even Barry Goldwater, that Republican icon, distanced himself from the John Birch Society when he was running against Johnson. But yeah, I don’t think it’s overblown at all -

Another edit: also, another mark of a fascist and dictator is that they’ll use vague language that they leave to their underlines to interpret and carry out their will. It’s telling that Hitler never actually specifically ordered or oversaw the installation of the Final Solution. Instead (and correct me if I’m wrong I’m going off memory here) I believe he said abstract things like “Jews are scum” etc etc and that his underlings interpreted his words to act in a certain way, which is absolutely something that Trump does in his language (shields from accountability, “I never specifically said that,” though his language gives permission to his followers)


Lumpyproletarian t1_it8mzu5 wrote

The most alarming parallel imo is the way the rule of law is being undermined in favour of openly political ideas - "the people's justice" is always no justice at all.


thefuzzylogic t1_it8okby wrote

Another good read that draws more direct parallels (written in 2018) would be How Democracies Die by Levitsky and Ziblatt.


Mysterious_Attempt22 t1_it8euaj wrote

American fascism is not like German Nazism, and as others have mentioned, is more akin to Italian Fascism. The Americans are neither as focused or as organized, and like Italy, Spain, and perhaps Chile, lean on traditional values, machismo, and religion more. They're possibly less organized than those three countries, as well.

All political ideologies, including fascism, mold themselves to fit our particular time and material conditions. In that light, the fascists can't help but change as well.

So, I don't think it will be a step-for-step repeat, but will it be a fascist rising? Probably. Will there be a far left, that is anarchist or communist that opposes it? Probably. What is causing all of this? The failure of the capitalist center politicians and political ideologies to be relevant and helpful for the great masses of the people.


ThisIsDadLife t1_it8ezp0 wrote

If you are looking for further rationale to be scared, check out Erik Larson’s “In the Garden of Beasts”


monkeyhind t1_it8hs44 wrote

See also: Lügenpresse

(Lying Press / Fake News)


swarmofseals t1_it8q0dh wrote

If you want to scare yourself further, check out The Storm Before the Storm: The Beginning of the End of the Roman Republic. There are a lot of interesting parallels there, too.


books-ModTeam t1_it8q7vx wrote

Per rule 1.2, posts cannot be inherently political. This is a book forum, not a political platform.


oldhippy1947 t1_it87dsr wrote

I read all three books in the series (The Coming of the Reich, The Third Reich in Power, The Third Reich at War) and there are more parallels to current politics than I'd care to see. The final book was a painful eye-opener for me. I'd read many books on the Holocaust, but the page after page of numbers the Third Reich murdered was almost overwhelming. Millions that didn't even make it to the death camps.


[deleted] t1_it8iuav wrote



histprofdave t1_it8ntqt wrote

I think that's an overly optimistic take, given the far right's propensity and success in infiltrating police departments and the military.


[deleted] t1_it8nlg2 wrote



thefuzzylogic t1_it8v00b wrote

>In the modern U.S., there is no meaningful level of objection to contraception.

Just because it's not popular doesn't mean it won't happen. Depending on the poll, something like 70-80% of Americans think abortion should be safe and legal, yet a nationwide abortion ban is a serious possibility if the GOP achieves a majority in both houses of Congress next month.

The Dobbs opinion specifically called out a number of other "bedroom privacy" precedents including Obergefell v Hodges (equal marriage), Lawrence v Texas (sodomy laws), and Griswold v Connecticut (contraception for unmarried couples) as being decided using the same reasoning that they overturned in Dobbs. They tried to soften this by stating that the Dobbs decision only applies to abortion cases because abortion involves the rights of "potential life", but that won't stop the Christian Nationalists from teeing up test cases that seek to declare foetal personhood and/or outlaw hormonal contraception and IUDs as "abortifacients", especially if Roberts retires or dies and is replaced by another Federalist Society hack.

But don't just take my word for it. In his concurrence, Justice Thomas says the quiet part out loud, explaining that the "this is only about abortion" claim in the majority opinion actually means that the court should reconsider all the "substantive due process" precedents as I described above:

>The Court’s abortion cases are unique, see ante, at 31–32, 66, 71–72, and no party has asked us to decide “whether our entire Fourteenth Amend- ment jurisprudence must be preserved or revised,” McDon- ald, 561 U. S., at 813 (opinion of THOMAS, J.). Thus, I agree that “[n]othing in [the Court’s] opinion should be under- stood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abor- tion.” Ante, at 66. For that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, includ- ing Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell. Because any sub- stantive due process decision is “demonstrably erroneous,” Ramos v. Louisiana, 590 U. S. ___, ___ (2020) (THOMAS, J., concurring in judgment) (slip op., at 7), we have a duty to “correct the error” established in those precedents, Gamble v. United States, 587 U. S. ___, ___ (2019) (THOMAS, J., con- curring) (slip op., at 9). After overruling these demonstra- bly erroneous decisions, the question would remain whether other constitutional provisions guarantee the myr- iad rights that our substantive due process cases have gen- erated. For example, we could consider whether any of the rights announced in this Court’s substantive due process cases are “privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States” protected by the Fourteenth Amendment.


SailboatAB t1_it8rg8v wrote

Eh. The original core of the anti-abortion movement was morally against the taking of some human life at the expense of other human lives. But a sizable proportion of the people repeating it now are just in it to own the libs and beat their chests about their side winning, and have no moral introspection at all.