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Fafnir26 OP t1_itpzfe5 wrote

Reply to comment by PuckSR in Anyone else finding the Politics of Starship Troopers troubling? by Fafnir26

Okay, thats good. But you still want to debate about it, so you should name problems if there are any, because I don´t see a lot if any.

I think the way universal suffrage is understood it still excludes children (I´d say give people the vote at 16 at the youngest) and "foreigners". Foreigners is not really precise term, though as you can change your nationality. Also, Athens excluded a whole lot of people if we are talking about ancient Athens.

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As for criminals, I think they should have at least some say how they are treated, espacially if they suffered from mental ilness, drug addiction, prejudice or poverty. And lets not forget people still sometimes go to prison unjustly. Honestly I am more afraid of people treating criminals cruely than of criminals being able to create some sort of situation were they are coddled by the system.

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Well, I am not sure if communism works economically but I don´t think they should be totally excluded from politics. We have a far left party here in Germany that has some communists I think. I don´t think its fair to put them on the same level as Nazis, Soviets or even facists (and a facist politician even won an election very recently in Italy).

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Yeah, that is a problem, but I think the solution is better education and news reporting, not exclusion.

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PuckSR t1_itqby4w wrote

>Yeah, that is a problem, but I think the solution is better education and news reporting, not exclusion.

I am just saying it is a discussion worth having. Maybe your solution is better, maybe mine is better. But someone saying that voting rights shouldnt be automatic isn't necessarily evil or malicious. Once again, that is somewhat the point of Heinlein's writing style; perhaps you have never considered an alternative system.

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Fafnir26 OP t1_itrackl wrote

Well, I have thought a lot about it and I don´t like it. Maybe my views will change after I read the book? From what I´ve seen the author is not so much persuading the reader as he is preaching, though. But I will check out Starship Troopers now. Probably after I finished Salambo. And then maybe reward myself with A Knight in Anarchy. I am more of a history and fantasy guy to Sci Fi. I prefer swords over guns personally. Honestly, they seem like the more honorable weapon.

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PuckSR t1_itraoax wrote

No, and that was my original point.

The entire story is told from the perspective of a cock-sure young man who is slowly learning about the realities of the world. You can't interpret any of the narrator's promotion of the govt agenda as true advocacy.
It would be like watching JoJo Rabbit and thinking that the director was pro-Nazi because the protagonist is pro-Nazi

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Fafnir26 OP t1_itrixqq wrote

Oooookay, then tell me this, why are so many people defending this books ideas?? Whats the point? LOL

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PuckSR t1_itroivv wrote

Some people are Nazis and think the Nazis are right. When they watch JoJo Rabbit, they see their beliefs reflected in this part of the movie.

That doesn't mean that the intent of the director/author has anything to do with how people interpret their book.

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Fafnir26 OP t1_itrpy13 wrote

Fair enough, so you are really saying Heinlein wrote this book just to basicly say every view expressed in it was bullshit?

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PuckSR t1_itrrjlf wrote

Nope. Heinlein wrote this book as a commentary on nationalism. But, he used elements of this fictional universe to juxtapose them with existing systems to make the reader consider if one was better or worse.

This is a standard practice in fiction when the alternative universe is not dystopian or utopian.

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Fafnir26 OP t1_itrvek6 wrote

Uh huh. Problem is I already have an opinion on nationalism. I think its counterproductive, espacially in our time with global problems like climate change and the migration crisis.

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PuckSR t1_itrz1ay wrote

Then you'd probably like the book?

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Fafnir26 OP t1_its09sf wrote

I guess? If it does allow for a critical view of its politics. I´ll have to make sure. Watching JoJo Rabbit now, though and its definately more satirical than the book. Kinda fun though even if its just Nazis being awful and funny so far, nothing deeper.

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