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Master_Ryan_Rahl t1_iujc43k wrote

Reply to comment by whattodo12351 in Anyone who’s read “12 rules for life” by JBP finds it so harsh and unforgiving? by newbalancewearer

>away from the incel-community and towards the road of self-improvement and moral responsibility.

No. The man has openly suggested we may need to solve a bunch of social issues with 'enforced monogamy'. He is absolutely not leading men away from being incels.

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Think4Yoself t1_iujfmn9 wrote

I don't think enforced monogamy means what you think it means.

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Genshed t1_iujhj4t wrote

It means that being a single woman who supports yourself and refrains from marrying should be socially discouraged.

The society Peterson advocates is the one we used to have in the United States, in which divorce was rare and shameful. A woman was almost required to be married and have children to be respected and admired.

That's what 'socially enforced monogamy' means in practical terms.

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Think4Yoself t1_iujin3s wrote

No it doesn't. Not even close. In practical terms it means that a person should be discouraged or prohibited from having multiple partners. Enforced monogamy has nothing to do with married vs unmarried, it's about monogamy vs polygamy.

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Master_Ryan_Rahl t1_iujh0jx wrote

Give your take then.

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Think4Yoself t1_iujhjpn wrote

Enforced monogamy is a term from anthropology and sociology. It means a society or culture that doesn't allow for plural marriages. The Western world practices enforced monogamy. It is illegal for a man in the United States to have three wives.

Now let's here yours.

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Master_Ryan_Rahl t1_iujms9l wrote

How do you think that applies to how he uses the phrase? He uses it in a context that would prescribe enforced monogamy to western society, as in we do not currently have it as a strong norm.

I think Peterson is often a deeply reactionary thinking person with sympathies to old modes of thought that comfort him. This situation is an example. When hes asked about modern dating and mens issues he uses this term and people hearing it take the meaning to be distributing women to men in a sort of effort to tame them. Speaking of women as a resources to better utilize. Now im unsympathetic to the calls that this is unfair to him because i think hes a poor communicator and hides in ambiguity and unclear speaking all the time.

So again, if you can explain why he prescribes a norm you say already rules, then maybe there can be some clarity here.

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Think4Yoself t1_iujqgbp wrote

He used the phrase in one New York Times interview where the interviewed deliberately took it out of context as part of a hit piece and it led to this position that you are trying to attribute to him that not only does he not have, but no reasonable person has. Do you honestly think that Jordan Peterson believes young women should be forced into relationships with the most pathetic men our society has produced? How would this hypothetically be enforced? Under threat of murder or threat or imprisonment? Seriously? Peterson has made very clear in several interviews his opinion of incels and it basically boils down to "if all the women reject you, all the women aren't wrong to do so".

The point he was making, and it's irrefutably true and has been well established for more than a century is that societies with culturally enforced monogamy are significantly less violent than those without it. In cultures where the most successful men can't have harems, and where cheating on your spouse is considered immoral, less disaffected young men are produced and less violence occurs. That is a good thing and if a better approach exists, we aren't aware of it.

I also noticed that you never actually provided your definition of enforced monogamy like I requested. Are you going to do so now or are you going to admit that I was correct and you didn't actually know what the term meant when you used it?

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