I do not think the Great Gatsby is a critique of American society

Submitted by Suspiciously_Flawed t3_z91h1x in books

First of all, I say this with the utmost respect, I am here to discuss not to fight or argue.

The Great Gatsby is my favorite novel of all time, in my opinion it is the greatest piece of western literature ever created.

Whenever I have a discussion with someone or read something about it the book is described as being a sort of "Critique of American society, class values, social taboos, etc..."

I think this is inaccurate, I believe that this is in the book but only because if a good author accurately describes a reality which is contradictory or flawed that will be portrayed naturally in the work.

In reality, I believe the main idea of the book is the green light at the end of Daisy's dock. It is about pursuing that fantastical, vague, child like fantasy we all posses in our heads. The place where we go when we daydream about what we wish we could be. Gatsby never cared about money, about Daisy, about any of it. He was chasing an image that he had built in his head of his ultimate self, and in that image were things like wealth and people like Daisy. Of course, reality can never meet that dream. When you get the things you thought would paint that picture, they are disappointing. This is perfectly represented in the following quote:

> Possibly it had occurred to him that the colossal significance of that light had now vanished forever.

As soon as Gatsby achieved his goal, it no longer seemed significant.

The Great Gatsby is a novel representing Fitzgerald struggled with in his own life, reality can never be the image you paint or novel you write in your own head. Once you grasp the green light, it's not so special anymore.

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Synaps4 t1_iyegcd4 wrote

> He was chasing an image that he had built in his head of his ultimate self, and in that image were things like wealth and people like Daisy. Of course, reality can never meet that dream. When you get the things you thought would paint that picture, they are disappointing.

That sounds just like "american society & class values" to me. The american dream in a nutshell. Chasing an image of what you think looks like perfection but which couldnt possibly meet the expectations people have of it.

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Suspiciously_Flawed OP t1_iyehtma wrote

The wealth was not the focus, it was just the median.

This is literature, what is literally written means little and serves to represent a deeper message.

The class values he sought were just part of the green light.

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RoseIsBadWolf t1_iyesxmf wrote

Wealth is the focus though. At one point Gatsby literally says that Daisy's voice sounds like money. She is not really a person to him, more of a representation of the wealthy elite that he wants to join.

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Synaps4 t1_iyev7qe wrote

He was chasing that green light for a reason. This sounds very chicken and egg to me.

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Chadmartigan t1_iyekfl1 wrote

idk how what you've described isn't a commentary on American society/values/etc. given the incredibly specific context we're given.

I think you're right that it's not about the money or women for Gatsby exactly, but about his freedom to dream and pursue those dreams in order to achieve (or at least attempt to achieve) his ultimate self.

But this isn't Gatsby's story exactly. It's Nick's story. And Nick's story is one of a man deeply in the closet, who looks at Gatsby as an aspirational proxy for himself. He is fixated in particular on Gatsby's romance with Daisy because it represents (to him) Gatsby's romantic devotion to a woman--something which Nick himself is incapable of possessing. Nick's infatuation with Gatsby is an infatuation with the man Nick desperately wants to be--which all the social pressures of his time tell him he wants to be--but which he cannot achieve.

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Suspiciously_Flawed OP t1_iyeli0h wrote

I think that the context is sort of irrelevant in this case, that the context and story just exists to convey the message. Fitzgerald happened to live during that certain time with those values and issues in society and therefore they were present in the story, but that doesn't mean that the book was about them.

>But this isn't Gatsby's story exactly. It's Nick's story. And Nick's story is one of a man deeply in the closet, who looks at Gatsby as an aspirational proxy for himself. He is fixated in particular on Gatsby's romance with Daisy because it represents (to him) Gatsby's romantic devotion to a woman--something which Nick himself is incapable of possessing. Nick's infatuation with Gatsby is an infatuation with the man Nick desperately wants to be--which all the social pressures of his time tell him he wants to be--but which he cannot achieve.

This is a really interesting caveat, not discussed enough, and you put it very well. Thank you!

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StoicIndian87 t1_iyeh98z wrote

Chasing what will ultimately bring ruin but we can't help it. However, the argument about the 'American Dream' etc isn't inaccurate. He wanted to gather wealth so that he could be equal to Daisy in social status.

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As Di Caprio said about the character, "Gatsby’s one of those iconic characters because he can be interpreted in so many ways: a hopeless romantic, a completely obsessed wacko or a dangerous gangster, clinging to wealth.” Really struck me.

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Suspiciously_Flawed OP t1_iyei4n2 wrote

Sure, this was in the book, but it's literature. What the book is about is not what the words literally say.

He used a description of society at the time to represent his message, by nature of him being a smart man and a wonderful author a description of a flawed society will reflect those flaws.

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StoicIndian87 t1_iyej2mp wrote

The socioeconomic setting of a novel is almost always a major backdrop for any work of literature and it reflects what the author thought of the society. The Jazz Age is a significant aspect of the novel. Great works of literature are open to many interpretations and Great Gatsby is no different.

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Suspiciously_Flawed OP t1_iyejmrh wrote

Very true, I agree with that, the good thing about complex novels is that it can be interpreted accurately in many ways.

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AccomplishedBasil700 t1_iyf4bmn wrote

I think it’s about the green light, too. But I also think that green light, as a fantastical childish desire, is the American dream (and all the problems that entails).

Here are some green American things: Money, Statue of Liberty, a “new” continent (like at the very end of the novel).

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dr-dog69 t1_iyf0dp9 wrote

Not sure I can take you seriously if you think Gatsby is the greatest book in all of western literature

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