Submitted by ThrowingSomeBruddahs t3_z9bs31 in books

CW: dissociation, violent death

One of my beliefs about literature is that it's complex—maybe more complex than one person can process. That's because, when we read, our minds are temporarily jacked in to another person's stream of consciousness. A prepared, orchestrated consciousness, but nonetheless a set of thoughts that came from another mind, which are now being "broadcast" into our minds. But, of course, our minds wander; certain words may trigger different associations for different readers; certain events may trigger different memories. So a text is never just the words on paper, and trying to claim that a text means just one thing is, by definition, a doomed enterprise.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about literature and, to my mind, the highest study of literature comes in the form of conversations between readers that share the details and interpretations of the different readings of a text so that everybody can gain a deeper knowledge and appreciation of how rich and complex the literature we love actually is.

So, bearing that in mind, here is an interpretation:

>>!"We hit the truck practically in slow motion, or so it seemed to me. In actuality, we were going about forty. The truck was an open pickup truck full of scrap metal. When we hit it, a large sheet of steel flew off the back of the truck, came through our windshield, and decapitated my mother."!<
>
>....
>
>>!Meanwhile, I was completely absent from the scene for ten minutes and forty-seven seconds. I don't remember where I went; maybe it was only a second or two for me.!<
>
>....
>
>>!"My mother dying . . . it's the pivotal thing . . . everything else goes around and around it . . . I dream about it, and I also—time travel to it. Over and over. If you could be there, and could hover over the scene of the accident, and you could see every detail of it, all the people, cars, trees, snowdrifts—if you had enough time to really look at everything, you would see me. I am in cars, behind bushes, on the bridge, in a tree. I have seen it from every angle, I am even a participant in the aftermath[.]!<

The Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey Niffenegger, pages 111-12

The Mayo Clinic defines three different types of dissociative disorders: dissociative amnesia, dissociative identity disorder (or DID), and depersonalization-derealization disorder. All three disorders are considered to be responses to post-traumatic stress, especially resulting from trauma experienced as a child.

The Mayo Clinic defines dissociative amnesia as: "memory loss that's more severe than normal forgetfulness and that can't be explained by a medical condition," an inability to "recall information about yourself or events and people in your life, especially from a traumatic time." Henry>!loses ten minutes and forty-seven seconds of his memory, immediately after witnessing his mother's decapitation and nearly losing his own life. During this time, he is physically transported from the site of the accident to an unknown location (though I suspect the subject will be treated later in the novel, I just haven't gotten to it yet). That is, his time-traveling, or chrono-impairment, acts as a post-traumatic response similar to dissociative amnesia. It is a physical manifestation of a mental disorder.!<

The Mayo Clinic defines depersonalization as: "an ongoing or episodic sense of detachment or being outside yourself — observing your actions, feelings, thoughts and self from a distance as though watching a movie." We can see one example of depersonalization when >!Henry encounters his younger self in the Field Museum after his younger self time travels for the first time (which must surely have been traumatic). In the case of the accident that kills his mother, Henry undergoes a kind of "hyper-depersonalization," where he not only "observ[es] [his] actions ... and self from a distance," but actually observes himself from many different vantage points and distances. !<

But Henry doesn't only depersonalize; he experiences>! his return to the scene of the accident as a kind of post-traumatic flashback. He time travels to the accident "[o]ver and over" He is "in cars, behind bushes, on the bridge, in a tree." He has "seen it from every angle." And like many sufferers of post-traumatic stress, his mother's death becomes for him "the pivotal thing." !<

>!Of course, the difference between Henry and the ordinary sufferers of depersonalization is that he can actually interact with his younger self in the moment of his trauma. He calls his father with a message to go to the hospital, puts a blanket around his younger self's shoulders.!< This is the fantasy of trauma: that, given the chance, we would go back and change things for our younger self. But the cost of doing so is that Henry>!must experience the moment of his mother's death over and over again. His time-travel becomes a vehicle for the expression of a mental illness that centripetally compels him to the same point in time over and over again. And there are real limits to what he can do to help himself in the past, as the book illustrates time and time again when emphasizing the theme of determinism. He cannot actually do anything to keep his mother from dying. !<

Mental illnesses are often complex and difficult to understand, even (or especially) for the people who suffer from them, but Niffenegger seems to have dramatized two such illnesses in the form of Henry's time-traveling >!repeatedly back to the site of his mother's death.!< She imagines a world where the operations of our mind can be externalized and seen, written into space-time as a form of >!eternal return to our trauma,!< but also a world where we are equipped >!to provide small comforts to our traumatized selves. A phone call here, a blanket there.!< And who knows what small kindness might make a difference?

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Comments

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Glitz58 t1_iyg2ucx wrote

Very interesting interpretation. Whether the authors know the exact words 'dissociation' etc they know the concepts from life observations. I think Terry Pratchett does a similar thing in Soul Music. The protagonist Susan is a child at boarding school who is frequently missing in certain classes because she goes invisible. There is a family secret and all sorts she will discover and fun explanation but I think TP uses it as a proxy for dissociation and avoidant coping after being cut off from her grandad and her parents death. To my eyes as a trained residential worker she also has Boarding School Syndrome, RAD, introverted. It's very cleverly done being intertwined with another parallel thread which is more lighthearted.

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ThrowingSomeBruddahs OP t1_iyg48ns wrote

Yeah, I generally believe that most writers write out of a kind of general instinct or feeling about how their stories ought to go. But I knew a little about PTSD and dissociation when I read the passages, so it seemed interesting enough to write about.

I have a lot of Terry Pratchett saved on my Scribd account, just waiting to be read. I’ve only read The Hogfather and Guards! Guards! so far.

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Glitz58 t1_iyg5pib wrote

In the same book Death is troubled by reliving memory which can be PTSD if it is negative memories or unresolved grief if it is invasive good memories which block the ability to function in the present.

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SLJ7 t1_iyg4qgm wrote

I was definitely thinking PTSD when I first read that. I suspect that your write-up is something approximating what the author was going for. Throughout the book we know there are times when his mental state influences where and when he goes. It seems only logical that a very traumatic event would be something he returns to often.

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SilverBabyComeToMe t1_iyg2nkz wrote

Sigh. The DID TikTok trend even infects the books sub. Please stop armchair diagnosing people.

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ThrowingSomeBruddahs OP t1_iyg4rwm wrote

This post isn’t about DID. It’s mentioned, but not elaborated upon. You’d know that if you actually read the post.

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SilverBabyComeToMe t1_iyg675t wrote

I'm honestly just weary of armchair interpretations of serious and complex mental illnesses.

This is really harmful to people with mental illnesses and it adds to the stigma.

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laine918 t1_iygk1hn wrote

I don't see anything in this post that stigmatizes mental illness, and I don't think you have to have a doctorate to make deductions about people's mental states using conditions codified by years of research as shorthand.

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ThrowingSomeBruddahs OP t1_iyg9cqm wrote

Psychological interpretations of literature have been a part of literary analysis since Freud.

Just admit you haven’t read the post and move on.

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SilverBabyComeToMe t1_iygakhj wrote

Obviously I read it or I wouldn't be calling you out.

People are allowed to disagree with you.

Psychological interpretations do not mean just slapping a quick Google armchair diagnosis on something and calling it good without further study into what the diagnosis really is.

And Freud is a quack, if we let every Freudian analysis stand, we'd still think every gun and stick was a representation of penis envy.

It's okay if people disagree with you. You don't have to personally attack me because I disagree with you.

But I am very protective of the stigma that is perpetuated by Internet interpretations of mental and physical illness, and you caught me on a day where I happen to be pretty fed up in particular.

So, please, pretty please with a cherry on top, please be aware of armchair diagnosing. That's all I ask.

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ThrowingSomeBruddahs OP t1_iygbiaf wrote

Where is the harm in the “armchair diagnosis” of a fictional character? Do you believe that only a licensed psychologist is qualified to perform a psychological interpretation of literature? If so, you must oppose psychological interpretations of literature virtually on principle alone. It is an extreme view, to put it lightly.

Do you believe that people who experience dissociative amnesia or depersonalization will take issue with the fact that I think Niffenegger dramatized their illnesses? If so, why? If not, then why the fuss?

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SilverBabyComeToMe t1_iygbw36 wrote

Yes, by all means, swing to the most drastic interpretation of what I said. That's helpful.

This is why I'm weary. I even said please.

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ThrowingSomeBruddahs OP t1_iygc6r8 wrote

Yeah, sorry, but I won’t be crybullied into thinking I’ve somehow harmed other people with mental illness just because you say so.

You either seem uninterested in defending your position or unable to do so. Thanks for the clarification. Now I know exactly how seriously to take you.

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SilverBabyComeToMe t1_iyggrkq wrote

I have no idea what "cry bullied" means. I don't think that's a word. But I'm quite certain that's not what I'm doing.

I've disagreed with you, and asked you nicely to please not contribute to the stigma of mental illness with a shallow interpretation of a Google search definition of a diagnosis.

But I already made my point. I have no intention of spending all night getting into a petty debate.

Stigma is harmful, and incorrect media portrayals contribute. What you call "dramatic" is part of that - mentally ill people aren't being "dramatic" - they're ill.

Here is an article about why stigma is harmful. Please take a minute to read it over. It would say a lot if you could step back and just agree that contributing to stigma in general is not a good thing.

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/stigma-and-discrimination

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ThrowingSomeBruddahs OP t1_iyghv3e wrote

Sorry, but you still haven’t answered some very basic questions that I’ve already asked you once.

I’ll repeat them now.

1.) What is the harm in “armchair diagnosis” of a fictional character? How, specifically, does it contribute to the stigma of mental illness?

2.) Does one need to be a licensed professional in order to perform a psychological interpretation of a piece of literature? Who gets to interpret? If I myself have PTSD, can I talk about depictions of PTSD in media? If not, why not?

3.) Do you believe that people who experience dissociative amnesia and depersonalization would take issue with the fact that I think Niffenegger dramatized their mental illness? If so, why? If not, then why the fuss? Note, here, since you seem to be confused: the word dramatize means only “to put those mental illnesses into a story,” not “to characterize those mental illnesses as merely dramatic, as opposed to illnesses.”

Clear these questions up and I’m happy to consider your viewpoint. Otherwise, as someone with PTSD, I’m going to speak on post-traumatic stress conditions as I see fit. Thanks.

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[deleted] t1_iygdo5d wrote

[deleted]

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ThrowingSomeBruddahs OP t1_iyggt6r wrote

No, there’s not. Dissociative amnesia and depersonalization are not the same thing as dissociative identity disorder. So while I am not a medical professional (and don’t believe I need to be in order to interpret literature through a psychological lens), I quite clearly know more than you do about the subject.

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[deleted] t1_iyghbel wrote

[deleted]

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ThrowingSomeBruddahs OP t1_iygi6b8 wrote

Do you believe that only medical professionals are allowed to make psychological interpretations of literature?

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clullanc t1_iyh1nfy wrote

I really don’t see why this post is harmful.

It’s one thing generalizing and making assumptions about actual people experiencing mental health issues.

Op is analyzing a book. They’re not saying anything about the people that this effects.

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non_avian t1_iyhksz1 wrote

This person is wildly misapplying these terms to discuss PTSD, but you're also out of pocket. I'm carding you both.

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