Submitted by Organic_Rock_6974 t3_zvwkxv in books

don't get me wrong, i used to compsumt some of booktubers and i've read some amazing books thanks to recomendations but the other day i found this girl with the argument of "if you feel that Colleen Hoover books are bad that is just an opinion and you're not better for that" and found that a lot of these booktokers doesn't really understand that writting is an skill and some people aren't good at it, also that you can't talk positively about all the books just because some people might like them even if objectively they're bad for many reasons.

Besides this, i want to know what do you recommend to increase a better critical thinking about literature, i've found myself in the situation of reading some book that i don't like (or that i really love) but i don't always have a reason until i read some review that identify my thinking, this doesn't happen all the time with all the books that i read but i would like to have stronger arguments at the time to like or not a book



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kqtey t1_j1rsgfh wrote

Reading is a hobby like any other. You can pick up critical thinking skills from reading, but it’s not a prerequisite to start. Not everyone engages with books for the same reason, and not every book serves the same purpose. There are conversations like this a lot on this subreddit, and it seems to me that they essentially boil down to “who’s doing Reading better?” And the answer is no one. One of my favorite booktubers, allisonpaiges, says “if you’re reading, you’re winning.” If you’re participating in an activity that brings you joy, that’s a good thing. Some people are just here for the entertainment. Some people are here for learning and critical analysis. Some people are here to admire storytelling as an art form. All are good reasons to read.

Critical thinking doesn’t always mean criticize, and probably one of the best things you can learn is that your opinions on books don’t make you better than somebody else. Your opinion on Colleen Hoover IS just an opinion. You are NOT better for that.


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1s422g wrote

i'm agree with the first part, i don't think i'm better than anyone. but genuinely asking, what are exactly you're winning with Colleen Hoover books? if you're an adult and you want to have some joy reading them is okay i guess, i'm obviously not forcing anyone to read anything but my only concern is that these kind of books that romanticize abusive/toxic relationship are most reading by teenagers and i feel that is important to have some responsability if you're recommendig something like that.


ShadowChildofHades t1_j1sxxtn wrote

They're winning entertainment and for some people pure entertainment is enough.

Sometimes I read to learn, sometimes for fun, sometimes for other reasons.

For those people the act of just reading it and "enjoying" the experience and story is what they "win".

Sure, theyre* toxic, bad, poorly written, whatever other adjectives people who dislike them throw at them, but they're obviously chaotic and entertaining enough for those who enjoy them.

Same as reality TV, or poorly written fanfiction, or janky video games.


kqtey t1_j1s5t0o wrote

I should clarify that I’ve only ever read 2 Colleen Hoover books and hated them both. I will concede that romanticizing abusive relationships is definitely something to be critical of. I agree that that’s an important conversation to have.


After_Mountain_901 t1_j1tox5w wrote

You're being downvoted, but moral engagement with art is valid, and always should be. If I make a neo-nazi romance, that casts genocide in a positive light, people could say my book was bad, and be correct. They could say the writing is good and the romance was sweet and authentic, even, and the book could still be bad.


impossiblepants t1_j1rqz77 wrote

I’m just happy if people are reading. I remember when the Twilight books came out. I made it about 3 chapters in before I gave up because they were terrible. My hope is that people will start with the bad books and gain confidence to move onto better material. We all started somewhere.


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1rtjt5 wrote

Same, I used to read a lot of fantasy books and like 3 shadowhunter books and then I gave up too but that helped me to look for another kind of book, there's nothing wrong if I kept reading those books, i just think is good to improve and read new things with the time


impossiblepants t1_j1rtyr7 wrote

I’ve found some good stuff off BookTok (Legendborn series, so good), but some real garbage also.


Lazy_birdbones t1_j1s4cx1 wrote

Totally agree! The cool thing about social media like tiktok and reddit is that you can cultivate your experience. My tiktok recommendations have been more good books than disappointing books. I've definitely read some some stuff popular on there and was not impressed, but the vast majority I've enjoyed since learning how to tune the algorithm to my preferences.


Beginning_Pickle2180 t1_j1skl16 wrote

Nickel for the person I've come across that started with Twilight or TERF Potter, and ends up loving stuff that's a LOT better. My favorite reviewer on goodreads loves Twilight, but she loves a lot of great stuff too, and, while mostly humorous, brings up insightful thoughts about what she reads all the time.


impossiblepants t1_j1sr99r wrote

I mean yeah I’d have $0.20 if I received a nickel from anyone who took a ride on the Rowling to Tolkien pipeline but a girl’s gotta dream.


After_Mountain_901 t1_j1tqahj wrote

Harry Potter was fabulous for reading aloud to my parents as a young kid. I occasionally listen to the audiobooks with younger kids in my family, and they love them, especially Fry's version. One of the best middle-grade books to get 8-10 year olds excited about reading and writing. A Wrinkle in Time, Percy Jackson, and the Chronicles of Narnia, too.


iknownothin_ t1_j1rjiqm wrote

The issue is, yes there are objective parameters to classify a book, but books are art and art is almost wholly subjective.

There are very, very few objectively bad books. Plus, if someone else is enjoying it, what’s the point of ruining their experience?


-buttonupshirt t1_j1uypqz wrote

I’m halfway with you, but I think there are a lot of objectively mediocre books when we use those objective critical parameters. Like music, there are ways to judge the quality of a book before you reach the issue of whether your yourself enjoyed it, and that shouldn’t be dismissed. I think we should just stop comparing apples to oranges and not expect something written to be a light fluffy one-day read to be judged by the same metric that a book written attempting to be objectively good. I can’t say either is better, but I can certainly say they’re different, and there’s nothing wrong with that! Everyone should read what they want.


HauntedReader t1_j1rk46u wrote

>that writting is an skill and some people aren't good at it

This is a valid point but you also have to remember that what qualifies as "good" writing is subjective. What one person considers to be a well-crafted book might be horrible to another.

Look at all the discourse over the classics and whether or not they're actually well written.


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1rmzni wrote

you're right! i guess is also something that writters can development


HauntedReader t1_j1rnc47 wrote

An author can develop their style and focus in on the areas they want to grow or develop but the overall quality is still subjective.

There has definitely been a push in understanding that opinions on books are subjective and a move away from elitism that you see frequently when discussing classics.

I would argue that is proof we're being more critical when it comes to discussing literature.


skullfullofbooks t1_j1rqzzg wrote

I think you're conflating people being defensive when someone rudely comments on a video or content to tell CoHo fans that she's terrible (and therefore the fans are terrible) with an actual lack of literary criticism and discussion. People read for a variety of reasons and some don't want to break down the structure of a book or talk about the writing outside of their subjective enjoyment.

If you're looking to try to break down the structure of a book you dislike to understand why you may not like it, I'd suggest studying writing to be able to recognize those things and be able to discuss them with more confidence. You can also seek out content that better fits what you'd like to see in book reviews and book discussions, which may help you grow that way as well.


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1rsfgk wrote

that's true, some people just read for the joy of reading and that's okay, thanks for suggestions :)


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1rsfn9 wrote

Yes. But Reddit subs like this contribute to it heavily. Look at the posts in r/books every week.

Same generic books come up over and over.

Project Hail Mary, Harry Potter, Brandon Sanderson

You don’t have to think critically at all to understand these books. There’s no shame in reading them, but if all the media you consume is like this no wonder there is no room for any discussion or nuanced opinions besides “I LOVED THIS BOOK.”

And yes everyone says “who cares what you read blah blah blah” but If people really can’t see the downside of only consuming clickbait, page turning type media, than that’s just wrong.

Reading is not all equal just as consuming any media isn’t.


pretenditscherrylube t1_j1s3udo wrote

Sometimes I think I’m taking crazy pills when I read this sub. Either everyone read Dostoyevsky or Steven King or YA. That is it. It’s wild.


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1s4e6d wrote

Yea I think it’s definitely a concern the relative lack of diversity of authors. Especially considering the YA, fantasy space, and Russian Aristocat space is definitely not diverse in terms of mainstream works.

But it’s also just a huge sub and like all big subs lots of repetition takes place


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1rw4wz wrote

maybe i've been very little time in this sub reddit lol

i know not everyone wants to read or think in a critical way or something but i feel that in every form of art there's always some parameters that are important to have in mind, it wouldn't have sense to study or discuss any of this if everything is completely subjective this doesn't mean that people isn't allow to enjoy books but idk, I feel that what we consume is important and to say that all books are the same and that everything is subjective to me is minimize the importance of the authors' work


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1rxkv6 wrote

I agree with what you’re saying.

I think this is an important discussion to have. I’m sure people in history have always argued about this subject, but I think your point of things like TikTok coming into play makes this topic very significant moving forward.

My main issue as I said is just the “reading is all equal” like you pointed out. It diminishes the significance of someone’s work and the importance literature has in society. Are we really going to say that the Harry Potter erotica fan fic is equal to something like Lolita? Like come on guys


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1ryc30 wrote

i think you got the point and explained better than me that my first language isn't english and get confused with words easily haha


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1ryfg7 wrote

Nah you’re good m8. I basically said exactly what you were saying anyway


[deleted] t1_j1s0jnn wrote



Brandosandofan23 t1_j1s17mi wrote

You made my point though. What I’m saying in terms of the critical thinking there’s an issue with only reading Harry Potter erotica. You’re talking about personal Hobby’s that’s not really relevant because it’s still media we consume.

People can read what they want but you’re not going to develop any critical thinking skills reading It Ends With Us or Fantasy page turners. That’s the point. Just like only consuming Fox News, the media we consume is still important.

And to the point of the erotica leaving a bigger impact… that’s just a critical thinking problem right there lol


[deleted] t1_j1s50ho wrote



Brandosandofan23 t1_j1s5whc wrote

To the first point that’s just a terrible comparison. Jogging is completely irrelevant. The point is that it’s media we consume. If you never look at media that makes you think then what do you think happens? You think this has no effect on our thoughts? It’s like any media lol.

Second point sure it’s possible but that’s again a bad point because it’s extremely unlikely Harry Potter erotica is talking about any complex or serious topics. You could could say with ANYTHING that the “one person might find more meaning from it.” It’s a lazy argument


[deleted] t1_j1s7z06 wrote



Brandosandofan23 t1_j1s8fm4 wrote

It is though. And you know it. You’re literally defending Harry Potter erotica by saying “it might mean more to one person” when in the grand scheme of humans it’s going to be a nothing piece of work.

It’s just so weird people want to die on this hill.

There’s a reason there are numerous academic articles on Toni Mo and not fan fic. Touch grass. Hope you have a good one as well though.


ElegantVamp t1_j1ssitd wrote

>It’s just so weird people want to die on this hill.

A world desperate for external validation + an increase in an inability to feel even the slightest discomfort at something or everything having to come with an "X is okay and You're Valid™️" disclaimer.


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1t5uk9 wrote

Yea I really don’t get it. The validity stamps on this site sometimes get out of hand


[deleted] t1_j1u22l3 wrote



Brandosandofan23 t1_j1uj2gb wrote

You completely missed the point though just like the other poster. The “who cares what you read” is important because it matters what media you consume.

Do you think the media you look at has an effect on your thoughts? Do you think a trend of only looking at mindless media has an effect on the critical thinking ability of people? Because it does, and that’s why you should care what you read/view/etc

Again this is what people on this site keep saying but it doesn’t hold up because they want to be validated so badly

It’s just anti intellectualism disguised as being “welcoming”


[deleted] t1_j1xakps wrote



Brandosandofan23 t1_j1xaza2 wrote

Hey, very well thought out response and I appreciate your thoughts.

I think you make a lot of great points and especially in regards to take a step back because even the media I might be consuming that I think “is better” or whatever could be leading me down the right path. Definitely room for nuance in there. Appreciate the in depth response


Trick-Two497 t1_j1rksox wrote

People are reading and encouraging others to read. It seems like that is not nothing.

I say this as a person who avoids Tik Tok and YouTube, so I may not really know the scope of what you're saying. But, and this is a big but, if you are wanting more people in our society to thinking critically, I'm going to point you at the anti-vaxxers and tell you that they think that they are and no one is going to convince them otherwise. So good luck with trying to fix this through better Tik Toks.


DickieGreenleaf84 t1_j1rmeau wrote

>People are reading

This the problem I have with this particular genre of short video media....I'm not sure they ARE reading the books they talk about.


Sam_Coolpants t1_j1u3wym wrote

I do think that booktok and booktube contribute to many people being unable to form their own and original opinions on the books they read. People are prone to mirroring the content creators they watch—what the creator thinks, they think. But everything is like that, from literature to politics. People have never been very good at thinking for themselves.

These content creators also dictate what is read, what becomes popular.


Brain_Spawn t1_j1vl19c wrote

I agree with this. You form a parasocial bond with the content creator, and then you want to have the same conclusion as they had, to be part of an in-group. I struggle with BookTok and BookTube personally because I straight up have found that I don't like about 50% of what's been recommended. And my experience with personal recommendations is similar, even from people that share similar interests. Two examples: I didn't like "A Darker Shade of Magic" by VE Schwab, I thought the writing was poor, the worldbuilding was vague at best, and the plot was messy. I am also struggling to not DNF "The Lies of Locke Lamora" by Scott Lynch, it's a well written book, the world building seems solid, the various plotlines seem intriguing... I can't get through it, it's a slog for me.


MDeneka t1_j1rleae wrote

Explain how these channels would lead to a loss of critical thinking. What about watching booktok or booktube would cause me to be less skilled at critical thinking than I was prior to watching?

Failing that, all I’m getting from this post is a sense of elitism; you want to believe your taste in books is objectively better than these other people’s, when in fact, it’s not. Your opinions on books are opinions, same as theirs.


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1rmo75 wrote

i'm literally asking for better ways to improve my critical reading and also asking for opinions lol, maybe i didn't explain good but i just think is something curious how reviews work in some platforms and how have a bad opinion of a book means directly that you're being condescending


After_Mountain_901 t1_j1tqsjg wrote

read the Paris or Kenyon review, or the New Yorker. Or listen to the NY Times books review podcast for more general book reviews and interviews with authors. They do have YA book authors on there as well.


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1usahc wrote

Classic coming in with the straw man “elitism”. This is why people fail to have conversations about modern topics because of these type of comments


MDeneka t1_j1v4cma wrote

Feel free to answer the question, then. I’ll wait.


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1v59nf wrote

I would say it’s not the actual apps but the type of content that is generally promoted. I.e. mindless books


MDeneka t1_j1v5eiw wrote

And how would watching this content cause a decrease in critical thinking skills, exactly?


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1v5it0 wrote

I meant the actual books they are promoting that decrease (or just don’t improve at all) critical thinking.

TikTok and other social media like Reddit is just a quicker way to promote it


MDeneka t1_j1v5ljv wrote

Okay, so how do those books decrease critical thinking?


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1v5qur wrote

Because they have no depth at all? It would be like only watching Fox News or scrolling Instagram, if you’re only reading page turning garbage of course your attention span and critical thinking is going to decrease


MDeneka t1_j1v5yrq wrote

Why do you assume that that’s all they’re reading? For someone who came in guns blazing accusing me of fallacious reasoning, you’re sure not fond of sticking to logic in your own arguments, huh? 😉


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1v68lv wrote

I mean you’re proving no point you’re just asking questions because you’re too scared to actual make an argument.

And I am assuming that’s all their reading because Reddit posters generally state themselves that’s all they read (see fantasy subs etc)

I’ve stuck to the same point the whole time if you only consume mindless media it’s not good for being a well rounded human. That’s not even a hot take yet I’ve had 17 Redditors try and die on the hill on this point


MDeneka t1_j1v6hug wrote

Scared? Of what, your amazing logic skills? Don’t flatter yourself haha. My argument was made in my first post, feel free to go back and reread if you’re confused.


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1v6phn wrote

Well you have obviously have incredibly logic skills from that YA fantasy you read ? 😂😂

But no I’m not confused I’ve already made my argument and get what you’re saying. I’m saying critical thinking is decreased if people only consume mindless media and that goes for books as well


MDeneka t1_j1v76sc wrote

Oh, look. Another asinine assumption. Have fun fighting strawmen, kiddo, I’ll leave you to it 😂


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1v7cir wrote

😂😂Ahaha back out of the argument because you’re mad and I stated a fact you wrote YA fantasy for middle schoolers. You have done zero anything to actually acknowledge what I’m saying you’re just angry because I’m against people reading unicorn fantasy’s for their entire life. Classic r/books

Good luck my friend


MDeneka t1_j1v7o1k wrote

Haha no, I’m backing out of the argument because I’m not going to waste my breath talking to someone so uneducated on the topic that they don’t even know the difference between YA and MG. Come back when you have the first idea what you’re talking about 😉


Brandosandofan23 t1_j1v82d1 wrote

😉 seems like your logic is failing once again 😂😂😂

You haven’t actually defended any of the topics at debate because you want to defend YA fantasy so badly lmao 😂😂. You’re just offended because you like fantasy. Internet hermits are fuming mad


Lanky_Fella t1_j1s00qx wrote

People have been blaming change for education levels since thousands of years ago. Ways of thinking and learning are always changing, doesn’t have to be a specifically good or bad thing, just different


DickieGreenleaf84 t1_j1rilki wrote

Booktuber, as far as I can work out, are people advertising books for free in the hope they one day get paid for it. Or am I missing something?


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1rj5bv wrote

i think that's great but lately i've found a lot that there's no any type of criticism and the reviews are kind of flat


HauntedReader t1_j1rmwwm wrote

It depends on who you are following.

They're like any type of reviewer out there. There are always going to be some that are basically advertisements.

The majority of booktok accounts I follow don't make a living off their video and are just talking/sharing books they enjoy.


DickieGreenleaf84 t1_j1rnk8k wrote

If you've got a rec, I'd happily check them out! The only ones I've seen have been from my recommended videos list, rather than sought out...which might be why they are so bad.


HauntedReader t1_j1ro9j1 wrote

What genres do you usually read?

Most of the accounts I follow on booktok are horror and fantasy and the channels are really focused on just those books.

If you like horror, booksinthefreezer is a great account on tiktok.


DickieGreenleaf84 t1_j1rodd3 wrote

Thanks! I occasioned dip into horror though I'm mainly a crime thriller person. I'll check them out!


kqtey t1_j1rqn9m wrote

I really love booksandlala! She reads a wide range of things but definitely a lot of thrillers.


HauntedReader t1_j1ronyu wrote

I'd take a look at her page. She does a lot of videos were someone will give her a horror-related topic (like religious horror or paranormal) and she'll list off a list of books she recommends.

She was really great when I was getting back into horror and wanted a wider range of recs than just the big names at the moment.


horsetuna t1_j1rj370 wrote

I was thinking of doing it in hopes of drumming up interest in my own publications.


DickieGreenleaf84 t1_j1rle9x wrote

Please don't.


horsetuna t1_j1rpkx1 wrote



DickieGreenleaf84 t1_j1rpt24 wrote

Because it adds to the problem I pointed's just more advertising....

Now if you are sincerely interested in book reviewing while you decide on your next book, go for it. But I suspect you're not or you'd already started doing it on the side anyway.


horsetuna t1_j1rpza3 wrote

I wasnt going to pitch my stuff in the videos. Just have a link in my bio and that's it.


DickieGreenleaf84 t1_j1rqe7k wrote

My point is that you would be doing it for the wrong reasons.


horsetuna t1_j1rqmr9 wrote

Well I do like to review books anyways. And they would be honest reviews. But yeah you bring up good points

Just throwing out ideas I guess x.x


dawgfan19881 t1_j1rmwgg wrote

Book tube is just a bunch of infomercials for books. As for subjective/objective good writing. It’s ok to let people like things. I’m big into fantasy and there are authors that write nothing but generic, derivative dribble that people think makes them the second coming of Tolkien. That’s ok tho. Let people like things.


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1rodaj wrote

same tho, i would never go directly to someone and tell them that the book that they're reading is bad except that they ask for my opinion


Lazy_birdbones t1_j1scp5v wrote

>and found that a lot of these booktokers doesn't really understand that writting is an skill and some people aren't good at it, also that you can't talk positively about all the books just because some people might like them even if objectively they're bad for many reasons.

Writing, like all art, is a skill. But taste is subjective. While some books may be considered bad on a technical level, that doesn't necessarily mean it will detract from people's enjoyment of them. There's obviously something in these very popular books that many people enjoy. There's this pervasive elitism in many book spaces relating to the idea that modern, popular books are "less than." I think this idea unintentionally is intertwined with some problematic, unconscious belief systems.

That being said, I've definitely noticed a problem with toxic positivity regarding books and authors. This is a problem. I don't read Colleen Hoover, but I know she has a huge fanbase. Toxic positivity suffocates productive conversations, sometimes important ones that require critical reading, and the larger the fanbase, the more suffocating this will feel. This is not unique to Colleen Hoover, as I've seen it many times with Brandan Sanderson fans as well.

These are two separate points that have been sort of fused together without examining what's connecting them; capitalism. Books sell best by word of mouth. Developing a cult-like fanbase has proven to be an excellent way to make sales (think Hoover, Maas, Sanderson, anyone whose fans you wouldn't dare pick a fight with about the books because of their devotion to the books and authors). These things do not necessarily have to be perfect, they just have to inspire passion. Our very human love of storytelling and sharing is being exploited for profit.


After_Mountain_901 t1_j1toqlv wrote

The problem is that you're likely consuming the content of extremely young and likely inexperienced and undereducated people who've barely made it through a high school lit class. That's fine, but the source of the opinions you consume also matters if you're looking to expand your own intelligence and literary analysis. This depends on your goal, though. Finding someone who likes the books you like is great for those para-social relationships and building wonderful echo chambers, but also for finding real life book recs. But, the truth of the matter is that good opinions exist, and some people's opinions matter more than others within a certain scope of criteria. It's absolutely silly to say everyone's opinion has the same weight regarding art.

We can engage ethically or aesthetically, for example. We can judge the morals, the quality of writing, composition, style, etc. Those are all valid criticisms, and some may boil down to preference. I personally think we should all be critically engaged with the media we consume, including literary art. Nonfiction holds an even higher standard, btw, so if you find someone speaking of "all opinions are good, and no-one is better", please run as fast as you can after politely telling them what a load of utter codswallop it is they're spewing.


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1u3nh7 wrote

i'm completely agree! i have to clarify i'm not following these people but i've seen them appearing sometimes in my fyp/tl with the same arguments. I don't know why people think that being critical with what we consume is the same than going and tell those consumers that they're stupid, you can be a respecful person and being critical and being curious about the things you consume I think is super important to have responsability at the time to recommend and defends books if you're a big youtuber you have a big influence, i gave the most obvious example bc that authort have been critique a lot for not being ethical and i find worrying that so many young people is reading her books without any advice or critique


symbolicowl t1_j1uf2dq wrote

No, not at all. I think there’s this wide perception that critical thinking skills are declining with media, but, to be honest, I don’t think that’s actually true. Each generation of people has been getting more access to education and is becoming more educated. I think it’s just more people have access to a voice and so we’re getting a lot of “uncritical” takes that we wouldn’t have seen before. I think plenty of people have always had these kinds of thoughts, but before there wasn’t necessarily a place to voice them where others could see and interact with those thoughts. I also think most booktubers and booktokers don’t necessarily set themselves up as critical pages. They’re reviewers and trendsetters, not academics or critics and that’s okay. I have plenty of uncritical thoughts about books too. If you’re looking for critical takes on books, social media is not the place to be looking for them. You would need to look at either high brow magazines (New Yorker, New York Times, etc.) or literary magazines/journals (generally I use Google scholar to find them or go through my university library). In terms of developing more critical thinking skills, honestly the thing that’s helped me the most is keeping a reading journal. I have a physical one, but also a Google doc where I record my thoughts once I finish a book. That way, I’m getting an unfiltered look at my own thoughts before I look at anyone else’s. At first, you may have trouble writing a whole lot, or putting your finger on things, but after a while you’ll notice you’re better able to gauge your own interests and pet peeves with books.


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1uibmm wrote

you're right, it also depends of what you consume cause algorithms works fast if you don't "filter" your content and thanks for the recomendations, i find myself having some insecurities of not knowing how to express my opinions of books, movies or whatever even if is just for myself and obviously sometimes i just want to read for the join of read but i also want to have arguments and opinions of books that i like, also for the joy of find new things in them


scarletseasmoke t1_j1s5190 wrote

No, we have more readers, more of them in it to relax, and more of those voices find you. It's big numbers and biases.


AntoniGizmo t1_j1s5uox wrote

Tldr: Not everything needs to be academic or literary. It is okay to read or converse for fun and not serious discussion. Think about things in context before making any judgment calls.

I think that a lot of people do not construct their online comments with proper reasoning and support in general and it is not related to booktok or booktube. Those people either don't care to support their statements or they never learned how to.

Additionally, I think that before we form any kind of statement on booktok or booktube, we should first consider the purpose and audience of that content. A lot (not all, but a lot) of the people engaging in booktube discourse are not actually interested in any literary analysis or review. It is more about books for escapism or smut. Sure, a book might have been an absolute mess in plot and pacing, but booktube betty still enjoyed the ride! They just want to talk about their opinion without considering the book through any particular lens.

And that's okay!

There is nothing wrong with liking books for those reasons or having conversations about them.

When I write reviews or recommendations, I nearly always start with "If you are looking for something that...." or "If you like x, then..." because a sweeping statement really won't be that helpful to a reader. You gotta put things in context as both a reader and a writer.

As for your own critical thinking skills, here is my advice.

First, decide WHY you are reading a book. Personally, I read at least 2 books at a time. One is an ebook for fun and that other is a physical book that I read for literary value.

Next, try to keep you brain engaged while reading. While I read both of these books, I am actively asking questions of the story and characters, making predictions of what will happen next, noting the author's word choices etc. But I am focusing on different things. As for my fun book, I am guaging how and what in the book is giving me enjoyment and it is okay for me to lose myself in it tbh. For literature, I am anotating how the author uses various tools to craft the story.


AngelDeath2 t1_j1rqsip wrote

I that capitalism, and all the hierarchy, double standards and gaslighting uesd to maintain it, cause us to lose critical thinking

Ideas expressed on Tiktok and YouTube are just a symptom of the greater problem


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1rs2tx wrote

completely true, i also wonder how this works in editorial world, how all these books became best sellers so quickly? i'm sure some of them have a strong fan base, lovebable characters and other reasons but i don't explain with other books


AngelDeath2 t1_j1rzbno wrote

The government (at least in the U.S) isn't allowed to censor media content, but the government doesn't control the flow of information, multi-national conglomerates do that. And they have a vested interest in making sure certain kinds of content become popular, which other kinds get ignored


Jenniferinfl t1_j1s4zsv wrote

I occasionally watch videos about books. It's entertainment. Other times, I read professional journals about books, because I don't currently work in the field, that is also just entertainment.

In the end, you can't take it with you.

For most of us, it doesn't really matter how you interact with the book. If you get more out of it, good for you, but it matters little.

Unless your literary critiques are getting published or something, your thoughts and comprehension matter to nobody but you.

Critical thinking is just 'the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.'

Most fiction doesn't really require it.


Arrow_from_Artemis t1_j1usi65 wrote

Reading in any form is going to be more conducive to critical thinking than consuming media via the internet, social media, etc. Even if you read Colleen Hoover, you're reading. This is far more engaging than staring at a screen.

It's definitely true when it comes to writing there are different levels of skill, and while Hoover might not be a particularly strong writer when it comes to prose or intricate plots, it doesn't devalue the act of reading itself. A lot of people like to flaunt the classics as if having read them is evidence of their superior intellect, but the truth is to appreciate books like Fahrenheit 451, you have to have read around enough to know what makes Fahrenheit exceptional in the first place.

I don't think people who love Hoover are wrong for their opinion. Personally, I love Janet Evanovich's Stephanie Plum novels, and I've even read Twilight and ACOTAR and liked them. Are they strong examples of well written books? No, but they're entertaining, and because I've read them, I further appreciate every book I read that has stronger prose and solid character development.

I don't think people are superior for having read the classics. I think they're classics for a reason, and worth reading in their own right. But having read them doesn't imbue you with some sort of higher knowledge or prowess in reading. Classics alone don't make you think, and you can read just about anything—even something by Colleen Hoover—and come away with a meaningful interpretation.

If you want to get better at your own critical thinking, spend more time thinking about what you read. Pause after every chapter and ask yourself what the chapter revealed about each character. How did this chapter work to move the story forward? What do you think this is building up to? If you're interested in the writing style itself, reflect on things like the sentence length, the amount of description versus action that takes place in the chapter. Thinking about these things will help you not only figure out what you admire about the books you read, but it will also help you further develop your critical thinking skills in regards to reading.


Ineffable7980x t1_j1uu70t wrote

If Colleen Hoover gets people to read, then I salute that. In my experience, people's taste evolves as they age.

Besides, not everyone reads for enrichment. Many people read simply for entertainment.


asunflwr t1_j1tn6o5 wrote

My main issue with booktok/booktube is those people who act better than allll the other readers because they only read classics. I even saw a video of a girl calling people who don't read them stupid, which honestly made me want to delete tiktok. First, reading isn't a competition, let people enjoy things!! Second reason it irks me is that English isn't the first language of many readers, me included. I prefer to read in English because 99% of the translations are just horrible and the books I like to read rarely get translated anyways. While I can comprehend more modern books with no issues, I find myself struggling to get through majority of the classics because the English being used in them is so much different. I honestly admire all the non-native speakers who don't struggle with it, yall rock. But, naturally, most non-native speakers will struggle with the English being used, and that doesn't mean they're stupid or less than anyone else. The elitism in the reading community is just not it.


Organic_Rock_6974 OP t1_j1u47i6 wrote

i haven't found anyone saying that but that's not good at all. I understand that tho, i'm not a native-english speaker either and haven't read some classics in english for that reason, my concern was more about the content we're consuming and no so much about the books you're reading even if i put a very obvious example