zedatkinszed t1_j1wz3x7 wrote
The fanboys are going to downvote this to hell, but, Brandon Sanderson isn't a good writer. By this I mean his writing is bad. His prose and dialogue are utilitarian. Despite his deep world building, despite his plotting, his writing is poor.
Lord0fHats t1_j1zf6n2 wrote
To be honest I've never liked his world building. I can smell the factory fresh scent on his worlds. They're too neat and orderly. Too obviously constructed and don't feel like real places with real history or active people. This is a common problem in fantasy to be fair and the extreme level of detail of Malazan has sort of spoiled me.
That said, Sanderson imo isn't a bad writer. One thing I like and look forward to is that he's gotten better over the years. Comparing Elantis to Warbreaker is night and day almost. I think someday he'll write something I unconditionally love and in the meantime he's entertaining enough for light reading in my book.
A-Grey-World t1_j21q6zf wrote
Depends what you want out of your writing I suppose. He's a good writer if you like plotting and world building (in his style) etc.
I'm not a big fan of fancy prose. Some I can appreciate, but I like the utility. It can be very effective in being invisible - you can just experience the story without realising "oh, that was a fancy bit of writing there" that makes you realise, well, you're reading.
It's more escapist. In that respect, it's good. For those who like it. (But I guess by that respect, 50 shades of grey is good, so maybe I'm persuading myself out of this argument lol)
High literature, it is not. But that's fine.
zedatkinszed t1_j21ra7o wrote
Sanderson is a good content creator in the field of books. He's a good plotter and world builder. But none of that makes him a writer. Not to mention a good one.
A writer has two tools - dialogue and prose. Saying someone is a good writer despite being bad at these two things (the writing) is like saying a house is "well built despite the crappy building job - but the architectural plan is great!"
Plot is just a schema - a structure. And worldbuilding is not writing.
I like the person BTW - I don't hate Brandon Sanderson - he's just not a "good writer". He's a hugely successful one. A hugely popular one. But no just because he can worldbuild and plot does not make him a "good" writer. He's a good storyteller sure, but not a good writer. That's why I call him a content creator TBH.
A-Grey-World t1_j23dftf wrote
>A writer has two tools - dialogue and prose. Saying someone is a good writer despite being bad at these two things (the writing) is like saying a house is "well built despite the crappy building job - but the architectural plan is great!"
You might be able to persuade me that he's not a good writer because he's not good at every aspect of being a writer.
But arguing that plot is not writing just doesn't work for me. Writing is all those factors. Being a good fiction writer has to involve being a good storyteller and being able to plot. If you can't do that, you are not a good writer.
You're right, prose and dialogue are tools. You don't have to be the best user of tools to produce good work. There's some hugely technically competent artists out there that paint photorealistic perfect paintings, they're using the tools almost perfectly. They might not be good artists though because art is more than technical execution. It also includes interesting subjects, composition. Many renown artists might not use the tools so technically well, but portray ideas, emotion, and story so much better with a splash of paint.
>Plot is just a schema - a structure. And worldbuilding is not writing.
Here's where we disagree. What is writing without the content? You're arguing being a good writer is solely about the literal act of writing, it's so much more. What's the point of the writing if the ideas it conveys are shit? Great dialogue, that conveys no meaning, makes little sense etc.
If you study writing, plotting, characters, the thing you're writing is a key thing to study and improve.
A hollow shell of meaningless but technically competent prose is not good writing.
>... He's a good storyteller sure, but not a good writer. That's why I call him a content creator TBH.
You can't be a good fiction writer without being a good storyteller, is what I'm saying.
Calling him a "content creator" is petty as hell. You're gatekeeping the word "writing" so hard someone who's written a whole bunch of books and got them published and thousands of people enjoy because you don't like his prose? Are only "good" (by your definition) writers allowed to be called writers lol?
zedatkinszed t1_j23my7s wrote
>You can't be a good fiction writer without being a good storyteller, is what I'm saying.
The whole of modernist literature disagrees with you. And postmodern literature. And the Romantic poets. And all contemporary poetry. I mean what's really the plot of Invisible Cities, or Ulysses or Death in Venice. Your definition is the limited one I'm afraid. A book doesn't need a story or a plot per se.
>Being a good fiction writer has to involve being a good storyteller and being able to plot. If you can't do that, you are not a good writer.
To be a popular novelist sure. But writing page turners doesn't make you a good writer. It makes you a prolific and successful content creator. I mean Dan Brown is hugely successful and still a crap writer. Paolo Coehlo too. Sarah J Maas, Coleen Hoover & Sally Rooney are all successful some critically acclaimed - none good.
- Being a writer is about writing skill. The clue is in the word. It's a craft.
- Being a storyteller is about storytelling skill. It's a related but different craft.
- Being a content creator is about content - creation skill. It's what publishers and the markets wants - more and more and more and more.
- Being a worldbuilder is world building skill. It's a totally different craft especially in SFF. And Sanderson is good at this.
These are different things and they are mutually exclusive. And there's nothing wrong with that. But Brandon Sanderson isn't a good writer. Due to the fact that his writing is poor, bland, hastily written and under developed. And all of that is due to the fact that the guy pumps out 300k+ word books way too quickly. He doesn't refine the writing - he just does more. Sorry but that's content creation.
And writers do need to be content creators. It just shouldn't be all they are.
I'd venture further that his own upbringing as a Mormon was pretty sheltered from really interesting writing (poetry, modernist literature, postmodernist literature). You know all the good stuff that deals with what Eliot and Yeats called Sex and Death. All the books the LDS hates. The "dirty" stuff. All the stuff that informs writers as they learn about that craft and how to create characters. You see this in a number of LDS writers - Meyer, Dan Wells - not 100% certain why but I dated a Mormon and she wasn't allowed to be well read.
Also - yes:
>Many renown artists might not use the tools so technically well, but portray ideas, emotion, and story so much better with a splash of paint.
That's voice/style. That's mastery. That's being good at the craft. Compare Sanderson's ability to construct worlds and magic systems and plots with his ability to use prose. He's got 3 out of 4. That's more than most people. I mean GRRM can write & world build but his content creation skill is functionally zero at this point.
And here's the thing some great writers are really boring. Saying someone is a great writer doesn't mean they write successful or page turning books. It means they're an artist.
Sanderson is not an artist with words but he is a multi millionaire - so fair play to him.
I'm not saying he's a bad novelist btw - just a bad writer.
FatalTragedy t1_j249jg7 wrote
Simple prose is not the same thing as bad prose.
zedatkinszed t1_j24b8gn wrote
Simple prose is not always the same thing as good prose either.
His prose isn't simple -- it's poor, it's artless. His fans say prose, characters and dialogue aren't his strong suit. Fine. Just don't proclaim to the rest of us that he's a good writer then.
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