i went into TSOA knowing how everything would end because of how much attention was drawn over this book on social media platforms, but EVEN THEN, it could not stop the damn tears

There's a slew of books taking alternate looks at the Iliad. Like, way more than I expected when I decided to try and read them all just because I dig the whole scene with Troy. Of the bunch, I thought Song of Achilles was the best. Maybe a close second behind The Songs of the Kings, but that's more about Iphigenia.

I liked the story, and I liked the book. Patroclus and Achilles really blossom and develop over time. However, I felt like the prose was lackluster. Looking back, the book is solidly in the Young Adult category, which I did not really expect going into it. Overall its well worth the read! The book is not too memorable, but knowing the myth Illiad is, IMHO, important as its 3000 years of culture.

Its not quite double-plus-good, but its certainly good.

This is the sign I needed to start reading The Song of Achilles! I read Circe years ago and loved it.

That book had me in a chokehold of tears. Never again haha

I kind of agree with your thoughts on the prose, but I think the overall plot and storytelling is good enough that I overlooked it or didn’t take a fault to it. I think it gives off a certain blandness that I just summed up to the difficulty in retelling/giving a twist to an epic.

But I think the characters and the plot drive it enough that the prose wasn’t my focus when enjoying the book. Like, the prose isn’t bad, I would say it’s still above average. The fact that it isn’t over the top and is simple, is what I think made it approachable and enjoyable, especially for someone getting back into reading.

Yes! And when you finish it, feel free to come back and let me know your thoughts!!!

I’m getting through because I picked up Hades (game) right after, lol. Or am trying to quickly get emotionally invested somewhere else 😂

Feel free to suggest some of your favorites, if you’d like! I’ve always wanted to dive more into The Iliad, the classic and any retells. It’s was a motivating factor when I picked up this one.

Knowing the ending and being with the characters and to finally reach that ending are very different experiences I’ve learned over the years. A journey is hard, but the conclusion shows no mercy.

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For me personally, with the standard caveat this is entirely subjective:

Yea: Circe, The Songs of the Kings, Song of Achilles

Nay: Silence of the Girls, Women of Troy, A Thousand Ships, Daughters of Sparta

Mostly I'm fascinated at just how many of these there are in the past couple decades. The Iliad is a rich mine for material, and has been for a couple thousand years, but it's interesting to me how modern writers are wrapping our current cultural values into it.

I am REALLY not a romance reader generally, especially when it involves teenage characters and some YA vibes but even then the slow and tranquil build up at the start really sold the love story to me and at the end I was literally crying my eyes out.

I’m so glad you liked it! It’s awesome finding a book you really connect with.

For those who have also read Circe, did you like The Song of Achilles better or worse or similar? Circe dragged on for me. I finished it, but it reminded me a lot of the Odyssey, in that it seemed to be a story made up of several smaller stories that ultimately tied together, but not in the most satisfying way.

I felt exactly the same way when I read this! "The Song of Achillies" was the first book I picked up after graduating high school and not touching a book for years. It was the thing that made me remember I loved reading- it kind of feels like you're getting away with something you shouldn't be allowed to because it's just so pleasant.

It's nice to be challenged by literature of course but sometimes I don't want reading to feel like work, and she does such a good job with that.

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“The Song of Achilles” is amazing, but I think “Circe” is even better.

I’m currently reading “A Thousand Ships” and I’m enjoying it.

You might also like “The Penelopiad” by Margaret Atwood as its Penelope’s view on “The Odyssey”

Feel free to join us over at r/MadelineMiller !

Its my favourite book of all time. I will never stop loving them soulmates.

I think The Song of Achilles is worth a read, but that it's often over-hyped. It's fine, slow but engaging, until the climax suddenly ramps up. The relationship between Achilles and Patroclus is sweet at first but remains under-developed, which I think undermines the central tragedy. I will say the climax is excellent, that this book has a lot to offer.

Ya I loved The Song of Achilles but unfortunately didn't even finish Circe.

Thank you for the recommendations! Heading to the library this week and will see if I can find them! Thanks so much!

Yeah! High school really kills a love for reading and makes you forget it can be pleasant (and should be most of the time, hopefully). Somehow my love for reading turned into “I have to read deep things and speculate over every detail.” There’s a time and place for that (like reading a book for the second time, lol), but gosh, by the end of high school, I understand why most people stop reading (or never start).

Like, now that I’m on a roll, eventually I do want to read more challenging, introspective stuff. But I don’t want to lose sight of this feeling, this happiness in a book.

I read Circe first, that made me pick up The Song of Achilles. I happened to enjoy both.

If you're interested in general to diving into the Illiad, I'd highly recommend Achilles in Vietnam by Jonathan Shay.

Its nothing like the Song of Achilles (personally I didn't care much for it or it's YA nature though I can understand why it appeals to others), but if you're interested in a deeper understanding of the Illiad as well as exploring the social and cultural themes throughout it, I'd highly recommend it.

Its a non-fiction comparative work, analyzing how Homer explores topics such as trauma, morality, purpose, and self-worth by comparing it to his own studies (Jonathan Shay is a clinical psychiatrist) of PTSD in Vietnam Veterans. It's tragic and powerful, as it compares Homer's description of loss and PTSD to the modern day, showcasing how (to little surprise but interesting to read nonetheless) America often fails in providing support and care for not only veterans but those suffering from PTSD in general as well as discussing the consequences of suppressing emotion and mourning.

Highly recommend it, while having read the Illiad is helpful it's not required as any relevant passages being discussed have excerpts and background information provided

I much preferred Circe - though I liked them both - because of the atmosphere. I think your criticisms of the story are probably pretty well-founded, but I don't remember feeling such a mythic depth to a fantasy book since I read Lord Of The Rings.

I guess, looking back, that mostly comes from the begining section of the book, where MM really draws you into this world of nymphs and spirits and malcontent godlings in a way I don't think I've experienced in another book. They felt like they behaved more like fae, spiritual beings than any other depiction of them I remember.

If anyone can think of any other books that they think match up on this specific point, please do recommend them! As I said, I felt like Lord Of The Rings had a similar mythic feel, and Holdstock's Mythago Wood series had a similar feel of properly ancient, pre/in-human magic, but I'd certainly be interested in more of the same.

I listened to the audiobooks, and I started with Circe. Circe is amazing, with one of the best narrations I've ever heard. Achilles is a pale shadow of Circe with a narration nowhere near the level of mastery of Perdita Weeks' performance, and yes that's a huge factor, I know, but that's how I experience most books and it has to be part of the equation.

Aside from the performance, I am just more attracted to mythological stories about gods than heroes, and I assume Miller's writing improved, since Circe came later.

I know audiobooks aren't for everybody, I used to be against them, too, but this one is so great I think everyone should try listening to it.

I have a huge interest in anything psychology related—will definitely add Shay’s book to the list as well. Thank you!

I DNF Circe but I really liked SoA

I really liked TSOA, but I was blown away by Circe

The prose and narrative structure work better in Circe for me, and the introspective nature of it was something I really enjoyed

Also I am just less familiar with her story, whereas I knew Achilles and Patroclus pretty solidly already

Circe was definitely better in my opinion but I thoroughly enjoyed both. I really like her writing style and will gladly read anything she puts out until that feeling goes away.

I've never heard of it! Can I get a quick teaser?

I've fallen off of reading books since Adult life has become work, sleep, manage friendships and relationships and my fitness. Also reddit! I've found its just easier to watch a show or spend time on YouTube before bed thanbread a good book.

Glad you liked it. That was my first Madeline Miller work too, and I really hope she makes a new book soon. Her next one will be about Persephone.

I love this! I always loved learning about mythology in school and the Song of Achilles is what REALLY made me fall in love with it. What a beautifully told story right? I thought about it for months after I finished it. And I, too, picked up Circe after Achilles.

Same for me. Loved both equally, in different ways

I did not like it and did not finish it. Page after page of lusting over a man's does not make a good book to me.

TSOA is one of my favorite books, ever. I'm about 2/3 of the way through Circe now, and I'm enjoying it although I preferred TSOA.

I know what you mean about the "smaller stories" vibe in Circe, and I don't think TSOA had that issue. It covers segments of Achilles and Patroclus's lives in smoother, more gradual transitions than Circe. TSOA is much more linear in that sense, as the story is always working toward Achilles in the war, whereas Circe is a more meandering path.

Fellow fan as well!! I mentioned it before on this sub, and I know Madeline Millers writing isn't a huge sell since so many people are divided, BUT I highly recommend Circe's Audio book. So well done imo!

I'm glad you enjoyed it so much! I was a huuuge Greek mythology nerd when I was a kid, and my love for it never really wore off lol. I got into TSOA thinking "I already know exactly what happens, this can't hurt me." Only for Madeline Miller to suckerpunch me at every opportunity. The dramatic irony was just chefs kiss Legit stayed up until 3 am to finish it and spent the last 30ish pages uncontrollably ugly-crying.

I haven't finished Circe just yet (almost there!) But I hope you enjoy it just as much as TSOA! :)

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I tried really hard but I just couldn’t get into it 😭😭

Meandering is the perfect way of describing it. The pacing of the story telling and the very flowery prose, while beautiful, came at such a slow pace that I struggled to stay engaged.

Yeah! They didnt love each other. It was just lust. Patroclus was the least interesting part imo

I prefer Circe too. It's one of my favorite books now. I need to read it again.

I liked Song of Achilles, but enjoyed Circe more. It was a wild ride and I love the evolution of her character!

I agree with this. The book was beautifully written, but the romance fell a little flat because it deep feel that deep or well-explored.

It’s a slow start… it all kind of quickly happens, especially towards the end… even still, sometimes you just can’t get into it and that’s okay! Circe, I’ve heard, is very different if you still want to try Miller’s writing. I can’t vouch for that one yet!

I can agree with the under developed romance. I think that’s a reason I want more—I wish I’d seen more of them fleshed out.

Circe is twice the book SoA will ever be!

I get that. I mentioned in my post that I typically have to schedule time or make a goal to read daily, but I know once I get on the roll, it becomes easier. I’m unfortunately not very good at summarizing, so I’ll just post what was in goodreads:

Achilles, "the best of all the Greeks," son of the cruel sea goddess Thetis and the legendary king Peleus, is strong, swift, and beautiful, irresistible to all who meet him. Patroclus is an awkward young prince, exiled from his homeland after an act of shocking violence. Brought together by chance, they forge an inseparable bond, despite risking the gods' wrath.

They are trained by the centaur Chiron in the arts of war and medicine, but when word comes that Helen of Sparta has been kidnapped, all the heroes of Greece are called upon to lay siege to Troy in her name. Seduced by the promise of a glorious destiny, Achilles joins their cause, and torn between love and fear for his friend, Patroclus follows. Little do they know that the cruel Fates will test them both as never before and demand a terrible sacrifice.

I’m learning that her writing divides folks—I wasn’t aware. Fun to see some other opinions and recommendations with them!

I love this, I’m so glad I wasn’t the one ugly crying. I didn’t know Achilles’ story and had never heard of Patroclus, but as soon as I knew the prophecy, I knew what was going to happen (like many, I’m sure), but it still fucking hurt. And leading up to it and wondering how and why, and then finally! Just. Whew boy.

You described how I’ve been thinking about it! Thank you for this post.

I really liked SoA but loved, loved Circe. I resonated with the characters more.

Does Briseis play a role in the story?

If you end up liking Circe, Jennifer Saint's "Ariadne" was a good listen as well. I was interested in her story after hearing her come up in Circe! I went down a Greek Mythology rabbit hole after ASOA lol

If you love Circe, find Ursula Leguin’s Lavinia; it is the tale of the Aeneid from her point of view - in the original, tho she becomes Aeneas’ wife, she never speaks a single word. Leguin was a powerful storyteller!

I definitely thought it was a slow start but couldn’t put it down once it picked up!! I cried so much at the end - so beautiful and tragic!

I read Circe immediately after and I ended up purchasing both since I enjoyed it so much.

I just got her Galatea book as well!

Can’t wait for you read Circe!

A small one, yes.

I read the physical books but I had the same experience, starting with Circe and ultimately preferring Circe. Both are gorgeously written, but I found Circe to be completely absorbing. I am curious about whether I still would have loved Circe more if I had started with Achilles, but I guess that's something you can't ever really tell.

I have been trying to find another book like this

All I ever see is hate for it on /r/books

Circe she gets to flex her knowledge of mythology more imo. She is a very talented author, but Circe’s story is more interesting to me because instead of focusing on mostly Achilles and Patroclus, we get much more interactions with gods, demigods, and other nymphs. We also get some of the Minoan myths, Skylla, and Odysseus and Telegonos.

I read Circe first and I liked both, but Circe stuck with me more. SOA is a bit more of a love story / bromance.

I honestly wanted to gush more! It was good to get it off my chest, lol.

Thank you for the recommendation! Lots of good ones here on greek mythology and such--I'm very excited.

Same! I definitely had to schedule my reading time and then suddenly, I was losing track of time reading it.

I just picked it up today. I was going to read a book in between to give myself a breather and prepare for the difference in writing, but gosh, I'm thinking I might just go all in.

Lots of recommendations in this post! You'll have to sift through the comments, but it'll be worth it!

I tried to like it, but reading A Song of Achilles I could tell 100000% tell it was written by a straight woman fetishizing about a gay couple. One of the weakest stories I've ever read. Maybe it doesn't help that I already knew how it ended, but I was left hanging. Their relationship didn't feel genuine at all. It totally felt like it was fan service and hated it.

I laughed SO hard when the one boy crossdressed to escape from the villian. Like what? That's absolutely ridiculous. Maybe I didn't care about it because I already knew the story?

As a gay man, it 1000% read as a woman trying to write a fan fiction over a gay couple. Yeah, she tried to make it sound lustful, but couldn't even go all the way with that either. What, no mention of olive oil? How are they going to have sex then? Spit?

The reason I didn't like the book was because it makes no sense that Achilles ever fell for Patroclus in the first place. Some awkward kid showing up and suddenly Achilles is drawn to him without any explanation of why...and Patroclus getting all hot and bothered every single time the sun glistened on Achilles. It became overkill. I think I rolled my eyes too many times and it became more of a distraction and annoyance. Too many things about it were poorly done, imo. Lots of positives as well, but I just found too many issues with the book to give it 4 or 5 stars. Glad you enjoyed it though, I know my stance isn’t very common.

Lol, the prose is one of the few parts I unabashedly like. I’ve read Homer in Greek as well as works that take place in distant, ancient times, and I thought that the choice to mostly eschew Greek-root and even Latinate words was a good one. You go the feeling of pre-history, which considering princes in Bronze Age Greece were likely barely literate, this story was. If only it were in service of more interesting characters.

Likewise. The greatest love in Circe is unwavering maternal love and I think that's what makes her so relatable as a character and it also may be why some readers prefer the more thrilling, romantic love portrayed in SOA.

Her next one is going to be about Persephone, but she has long Covid and is having trouble finding the energy to write it.

Most of my problems with TSOA revolve around the fact that Patroclus is such a flat character, and conflict needs to come from a bunch of other quarters (mostly women who themselves are victimized in myth) because otherwise the self-insert and his jock boyfriend are just too…boring, I guess.

Ive gone into this before, but Patroclus is a fascinating character in the Iliad. He has epithets like “god-born” and “known-to-god” (god here being Zeus, who was his ancestor, maybe his grandfather depending on who you think his mother is), and is said to be a “mortal like a god,” and has by far the highest kill count in the Iliad. He kills the second greatest fighter on the Trojan side, and has quite a few epithets, which is a decent metric for how heroic a character should be (Paris has one, lol). Like Achilles his father was on board the Argo, and his grandmother rather than mother was a sea nymph.

He is capable of ending the Trojan War but is not allowed to. A god has to swoop in and stop him. He has the pedigree of a minor or mid hero, but he has to live in Achilles shadow, and might even be an Achilles figure because the plot of the Iliad demands that Achilles sits it out so you need some heroing.

Anyway, I don’t think characters have to match myth completely, but you need some kind of manikin to hang the rest of the outfit on, and there is nothing in myth to justify this pacifist version of Patroclus. The character in TSOA is not interesting, and there are so many aspects of the mythic character you could use to explore fate and heroism and sex and Miller just…doesn’t, at least in any way more profound than “I guess I died where is Achilles I miss him.”

And it kills me that the bit at the end-the bit with the small part of the Trojan war that occurs during the Iliad—is so jarringly different than the rest of the book. That’s the source material!

I am so glad you made this post! I adored Circe and The Song of Achilles (though personally I preferred Circe) and there are so many great recs in these comments!

I think your stance is more common than you might think? There have been a couple of comments that reflect this and I don’t disagree with it. For me, the lightweight relationship is both a pro and a con. It’s a con because, like, yes, I want to see this fleshed out. I want to emotional intimacy and struggle, not the boy crush and shallow views for a couple who literally grew up together. But I also like that it was very surfaced because I wanted a good story and a moderately happy ending. I wanted something lightweight and easy to read and digest, an escape, a book where there’s a bit of “magic.” I like the heavy hitters, I do, but at this point in time, I really just wanted a book that pulled on my heart strings in all the right ways without dragging me down too much. I’m not saying it couldn’t have been pulled with a deeper insight to the two, because your point is really valid, but I don’t know, I think I wanted it and so I didn’t mind putting away some qualms.

It was very popular so of course the sub hates it.

I hesitated in it since I know it’s talked about a lot, but these recommendations were worth it and I’m glad I did 😭

I wonder for how many people, the book works because they don’t know much about these characters otherwise. I imagine that Patroclus was more interesting, as anyone with a name in Iliad usually is, but other than a reading of the odyssey and some other I can’t remember, I’m not well versed in the Iliad. So I get a blank slate to start with, and can take these characters as kind of a fan fiction almost, honestly. I’ve referred as “a retelling” in some other comments, but I didn’t read it with that idea in my head. I assumed it would be far different from The Iliad, and I think the disconnect, and ignoring some other things (I also thought Patroclus was a flat—he gets more interesting in the end when he starts to become his own person and interact with people and gets out of Achilles shadow—and has a conflict with and major contrast to Achilles), is the reason I still enjoyed it. Sometimes I just want a good story and I’ll ignore everything else, to be honest, so I can understand the reasons to dislike it, I think.

Yes!!!! I felt that same way! It definitely picks up! I still quote “What did Hector ever do to me” to my brother!

And yes - I found the style was super different/more complex and did have a slow start like TSoA but I still really enjoyed it just as much!

TSOA was enjoyable and well made, but Circe was another level for me. As someone who's first obsession was greco-roman mythology and studied Latin for years with a bit of classical Greek as well, but also someone who has much preferred the fantastical Odyssey to the drably violent Illiad, Circe resonated a lot more with me.

The mythological aspects were rather well thought out, and i quite enjoyed the way the author navigated the nebulous and often conflicting surviving tales we have of many of the included mythological figures to create a practical narrative. Its those smaller stories being coherently woven together for a biographical history of an ancient figure like Circe which really drew me in along with relating to some parts of her journey. It was a bit enjoying the story but also a bit of "i wonder how the author is going to incorporate X story or Y figure" that added another level of enjoyment personally.

The mythopoetic atmosphere is something i rarely find in narrative books which i enjoy, so i deeply treasure those where i find it as i did with Circe. I can see though how it can be a less engaging and fulfilling read for others who don't relate or enjoy that same sort of story telling.

> Patroclus is such a flat character

Agree. Patroclus felt very much like a "self-insert / reader-insert" character very similar to Bella from Twilight, where she keeps going on and on about how she is plain, simple and clumsy, and how she doesn't get why someone as handsome as Edward is into her. And I got the same vibe between Patroclus and Achilies.

Props to the book for exploring the romantic nature of the relationship which other modern retellings avoided / simply said they were "cousins / best friends" etc. So good for lgbt+ representation.

My overall experience of the book is positive. Loved the sea-goddess mother giving fierce MIL vibes. Loved the realism of war, loved the vivid description of palaces, islands and the seas, etc.

But the main character-dynamic between Achilles and Patrocles, where one person is clearly more important, and the other person's whole existence is just being a devoted supporter and having little value beyond that, personally, just did not jibe with me. The relationship felt highly unequal.

I would have preferred if Patrocles was more empowered and heroic in his own way.

I went the opposite way, played Hades first (and LOVED it, it's one of the best games I've ever played), and just got really into greek mythology and the book after (also loved it). You might meet some familiar faces in the game! ;)

This was the book that got me back into reading as a whole. I love it so much.

I enjoyed Ariadne also.. I tried to read two other books surrounding the Trojan war, one was a complete bust. House of Names by Colm Toibin and I can see why people enjoy that style of writing, but I need dialogue, inner thoughts etc and I think he talked about a hallway for a page and a half and I just closed the book. The next was about Iphigenia and her sisters, this could have been a good book but I was just tired of the Trogan War! I was reading them one after another because as a greek mythology child I couldn't get enough, needed more, haha. Ariadne gave me that Greek Mythology hit but had nothing to do with thr Trojan War. Loved it.

You might enjoy Stephen Fry’s retelling of mythology. It’s a trilogy by now: Mythos, Heroes and Troy. He does a very good job at telling the legends and even occasionally bringing his own commentary to them. The best part is that it doesn’t sound didactic and although they aren’t technically novels, they flow in a very natural style. He has also done some shows where it’s just him sitting in an armchair telling the stories. I warmly recommend them. And if you have a change to get the audiobooks, don’t miss it, Stephen is also a master narrator, he’s made me hate my commute wasn’t longer :).

Well it’s a common trope in at least 2 mythologies. Achilles does it, Thor does it and to some extent even Loki does it.

This book is terrible.

I see 80% love for it and 20% meh. I am one of the people meh about her.

Personally, I've read many of her books, but don't love them. To me they come off as seeming deep but in reality are surface level that are written very prettily. The events seem disjointed and the characters are entities that events happen to, with very little agency of their own. I think Guy Gavriel Kay does everything she does but better, I don't think I'll pick up her next book.

I’m usually anti-romance but it’s so…so good. I detest the clichés but the book…superb.

I studied Classics for years and not a single person told me “Achilles and Patroclus were a thing.” I was not told about Aeschylus’s The Myrmidons or Plato’s The Symposium (where he rightly says Patroclus was the top and Achilles was the bottom). I was not even given Shakespeare’s Troilus and Cressida which has them as lovers. I wasn’t told Alexander the Great was a Patrochilles fan and when his best bro-being-dude bro Hephaestion died, Alexander mourned just as Achilles did and even both worshipped the duo at Troy.

I haven’t cried from it, but I immediately bought Hades when I found out about it and totally got into that game because…>!they end up happily deadly after.!<

This book is dangerous because I can’t stop thinking about them. Great book, but it changes you.

Thanks I’ll edit my comment to fix the mistake :)

It did make me want to dive deeper into the Iliad and Odyssey. I only read the Odyssey in school and that was back in middle school. And I knew vaguely how it was going to end but it still was so sad!

You’re welcome to find a post about how awful it is. I’m here to share sentiment with those who enjoyed it. There are plenty of hate posts, or you can make your own. No need to poop on someone else’s party just because you have a different opinion.

Yeah, that’s a bit part of it. Like, there’s an opportunity to pick it a part and critique it, I’m sure I’ll do that some day, but heck, I’m just so glad to be reading SOMETHING again.

I can’t educate a random Reddit user on taste. But it might be helpful for you to know that this book is terrible so that you might expand your reading horizons.

I cannot WAIT for her Persephone book!

You can at least put in the bare minimum effort and explain why you think it is terrible instead of being a condescending prick and suggesting they simply don’t have taste.

Ok. Poor characterization. Weak prose. Reads like twilight fanfic with Greek mythos backdrop. Happy?

Ooo, I’m going to put all these books on the list. So many good suggestions after a short sighted post. Thank you for sharing!

Same! I always wanted to go deeper into the two, but it feels intimidating, especially since it’s been a while since I’ve practiced any book analysis. But I think starting off with some modern ones ones, some easy reads, will eventually give me the courage, and understanding, I need to return to the originals! I do remember enjoying the odyssey, but as someone who hadn’t read for a long time, I knew it would be difficult to dive right in to the text. So, the book and all the suggestions in the comments will be nice buffers.

I’ve commented several times when other people critiqued and even agreed with them. I literally put in my post that this was useful to help me start reading again. It really just sounds like you want to complain and criticize someone else’s joys and feel holier than thou. There are lots of posts on this subreddit and in Reddit for that.

Thanks for saying this. I appreciate it. I try to stay fairly nice, but this is what I really wanted to say 🥲

Would you like me to link you some posts that dislike the book? I think you’ll enjoy it there more than a post that enjoys the book. Whether it’s bah humbug-ers fleshed out critiques, I’m sure there’s a place you can enjoy being a miser.

Y’all sound upset.

Good luck with The Myrmidons. It’s a lost play.

Although this comic from HappyRoadKill seems to get the point across.

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I also hated Thetis in TSOA. I get the vibes, but she decides that the Myrmidons aren’t crying hard enough at Patroclus’s funeral in the Iliad and leads them to sob harder. She also took care of Hephaestus after Hera threw him off of Mt Olympus for being too ugly. She seems like a nice lady! But Patroclus was such a flat character Miller had to find a villain or an obstacle somewhere and landed on the few female characters.

ETA: I want to emphasize that I am ok with novel interpretations, but the women bore the worst of it in TSOA, and I think a more interesting story without Thetis as an outright villain the whole time could have been told. Like, at the end of the day, I just think it was kind of boring and the scope was extremely limited. Like, Patroclus’s funeral was a big deal in the Iliad, and Menelaus and Ajax risked their lives to get his body back, and many more men died for it. But I guess we just get a line about Patroclus helping Menelaus with his headaches?

Otoh the characters in the Iliad, after nearly dying to get the body back, would not have backed down when Pyrrhus says Patroclus’s name won’t be on the tomb. Whatever.

I love tsoa, even if it isn't The illiad accurate or whatv, is so cute and enjoyable! Is one of.my fav books ahh 💗

I totally agree with this.

TSOA felt like the epitome of queer romance written for straight people. Everything about their relationship was made heteronormative. Polygamy? Gone. Bisexuality? Gone. Shared status as soldiers? Gone. Instead, we get a prototypical passive protagonist with no personality, agency, or goals beside lusting after the masculine demigod whose feet smell like honey. And everybody praised it instead of treating it like Twilight.

The fact that this is still the face of gay male literature irks me to no end. People fall over themselves lauding straight authors for writing comfortable, familiar queer stories, but they leave incredible literature by so many queer authors unread.

I thought it was mediocre, but I absolutely loved Circe!

anyone wanna talk about anything private message

Axios by Jaclyn Osborn has very TSoA vibes but is set in Sparta. With the cavest that I only got a few chapters in before realising I wasn't in the right place to read something that could potentially break my heart, but I'll go back to it at some point.

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Omg! I love it! I am 30% done in just one day. I’m sad because I’m going on a trip with a long flight so I’ll finish it super fast. Any other recommendations? I love Miller’s style and wish she wrote more books so I can binge on them.

Circe is the one everyone recommends, if you haven't read it yet! She's in the process of writing another, I've learned from this thread. Other than that, there are a lot of suggestions people have offered in the comments, so they're worth sifting through. My list got a lot longer after posting this! Safe travels and happy reading!

This is really good to know. A lot of people have offered other suggestions or ones closer to the original epic, so I'm looking forward to seeing these characters and how they actually are.

Nice to know Thetis wasn't so bad and it is unfortunate she was painted this way. Also, even in Miller's interpretation, with how much Patroclus helped, I would have expected him to get more. Nice to know he did get the credit he deserved.