Submitted by JonathanCue t3_10og9rl in books
UnderwoodsNipple t1_j6egybw wrote
Reply to comment by JonathanCue in What is a plot/world-building issue that breaks your suspension of disbelief? by JonathanCue
Well is there a specific example here where it took you out and one where you think it works well? Because your post very generally suggests that fantasy as a genre often doesn't work because existence of magic should cancel out a medieval society.
JonathanCue OP t1_j6ek38s wrote
Certainly. I found that Dune had excellent world building in regards to its 'magical' component. The Bene Gesserit Witches, while possessing incredible powers, are also essentially conditioned to be completely subservient and possess little to no ego unto themselves, preventing any individual member from a desire to exert direct control (yet even this isn't wholly true; as the group has their own ambitions and desires that they carefully keep hidden THROUGH this subservience, and because their abilities are too subtle to be effective in direct confrontation).
Vampire; The Masquerade (though a game) has good world building in regards to its secret vampire society, with the explanation as to the masquerade having little to do with humans and more to do with the fact that they're all too busy killing eachother to want to deal with *another* foe. Despite this, plenty of vampires DO inhabit high society and government positions, and keep themselves hidden more out of fear of other vampires than what humans would do.
Avatar, The Last Airbender (though a show) had great world-building where you can see the direct results of the magical system on the society within it. The Earth Kingdom's landscape/cities all function AROUND the ability to Earthbend and it has the most intricate transit system of all nations due to this reason. The Fire Nation has the most advanced technology of anyone, far surpassing all others, because they have a unique, portable, accessible heat source constantly at their disposal. Etc.
One that took me out of it? Harry Potter, just at the top of my head. A master wizard has enough power to wipe out dozens of battalions with a flick of a wand or assassinate select individuals with ease and you're telling me they all borderline-unanimously decided to keep to themselves out of every human conflict ever? Come on now.
I didn't mean to suggest that magic should cancel out medieval society, because even in fantasy worlds built from the ground up they go through a medieval period, all I meant was that said society would grow and develop *alongside* these magics and having them and their effects integrated into their society, rather than nothing being particularly different. If your world includes a group of superpowered humans who HAVEN'T followed the trend of literally every other powerful group to ever exist... why is that? There ARE reasons why people who have vast power wouldn't want to *exert* that power, but it has to be more believable than "We just didn't want to", and IF that's the explanation, then what is the CULTURAL reason that enforces that? Is it some kind of religious orientation that commands pacifism? If you try to deviate, do you lost your abilities? Etc.
Same with regular fantasy. If, within your fantasy world, there exists a group of people who are able to approach a noble and command them to give up all of their gold and this noble is magically bounded to obey, there HAS to be some legal recourse from that or military protection preventing it. There's no way a world would exist where such powers were learnable that a society would just let slip under the rug.
Kssio_Aug t1_j6emngc wrote
I mean, in Harry Potter isn't Voldemort objective exactly to rule both worlds and dominate the non-magical humans? So they're not unanimously agreeing with the rules they live by. And Voldemort had his share of allies, they just kept themselves in the shadows when they felt their aspirations wouldn't get enough traction.
JonathanCue OP t1_j6enfz2 wrote
Yes, that's why I included the last line of my main post: (until the events of the plot kick off, of course).
When I say unanimous, I am not speaking literally. Obviously the villain in any one of these stories is OFTEN someone who wants to take over both worlds; but there it is: 'The Villain'. Looking at Harry Potter, wizards are recruited from all over the world. They each have different backgrounds, different cultures, different views, different beliefs, and different childhoods; so why is it that it took UNTIL Voldemort for the idea of "Hey, why are we hiding out again?" to seriously arise? Surely this should have been a REGULAR thing the wizarding world contended with. And IF they're contending with it... why? Why is it the 'good' decision to not rule everything? Why did the board of directors decide on THAT approach vs any other? Etc.
Again, 'they felt their aspirations wouldn't get enough traction', but why is that? Why is the wizarding world one centered AROUND non-interference? Why is THAT the default? So on, so forth.
Y_Brennan t1_j6etrqb wrote
You Should read Annals of the western Shore by Le Guin. The people with powers are a bunch of incestuous mountain clans who only fight each other and don't leave their mountains. It is an awesome series.
JonathanCue OP t1_j6euk25 wrote
I too would fight over having the biggest mountain, so I get it.
Y_Brennan t1_j6gy4w8 wrote
I never said biggest.
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