How badly am I getting screwed by my plumber?

Submitted by BostonBopper t3_10wxa4h in boston

I had a tankless natural gas hot water heater die and it was replaced with a Rinnai unit. 5.5 gal/min. The removal of the old unit and the replacement with the new unit was pretty straightforward - no major changes to the lines/vents.

The cost was $4700. I asked for a breakdown and I get back $2500 for labor so the Rinnai was $2,200.

Couple of additional details: Plumber was there for 6 hours. So hourly that breaks down to roughly $400/hr.

The Rinnai unit at Home Depot was roughly half that cost. I questioned this and got a song-and-dance about getting it from the supplier costs more (?).

So questions - how badly out of line are these costs in total? Any potential strategies/remedies?

**Edit**. Thank you everyone for your very helpful responses! Appreciate the temperature check. Now I go to write the check….”Kids, better start applying for those scholarships….”

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capta2k t1_j7phmph wrote

Home Depot quality is not supply house quality

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HumbleHubris86 t1_j7plbwy wrote

Agreed. Had a hot water heater put in from a supply house, saw the same size/brand from home depot for less price. Asked my plumber about it and he said the supply house heater has a higher btu rating so replenishes the hot water much faster than the home depot one. Glad I went with the one from the supply house.

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benck202 t1_j7pvm82 wrote

True for things like kitchen appliances as well. You’ll notice The model you get from a supply house or a dedicated appliance store will be called the same thing as at Home Depot but have model numbers that are slightly different. The Home Depot version will be cheaper in price but slightly different (for instance, certain parts are stainless steel in one but plastic in another). My appliance guy says the savings you get for the Home Depot model are never worth it in long run.

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HumbleHubris86 t1_j7qacte wrote

Yeah I think the old Cub Cadet lawnmowers were shaft driven but the same looking model from HD were belt driven, knocking price down a fair bit.

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lifeisakoan t1_j7pjk60 wrote

This. HD sells a lot of crap. If you are paying $2200$2500 to put it in (which is fair) make sure what you are putting in is going to last.

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RonMexico070707 t1_j7pmtpa wrote

Plumber here…very fair and normal price. Also, Home Depot worker here. You can’t compare HD prices to supply house prices.

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Galbert123 t1_j7q7o5n wrote

> Also, Home Depot worker here. You can’t compare HD prices to supply house prices.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? I'd like to learn the why so I'm not a complete rube of a home owner

edit: ah i see other comments. /u/HumbleHubris86 thanks

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hemingwai t1_j7pkmoz wrote

Sounds like you paid a premium for an emergency replacement, the plumber likely dropped everything to address your busted water heater. You are also not factoring in any stock besides the water heater. Youre probably talking an additional $300-$500 in piping, valves, a new PVC vent, possibly a new wall to hang it on.

HD buys the rinnai label and slaps it on junk. Never get crucial home infrastructure from HD.

Are you hiring an actual plumbing company who is sending out one of their plumbers, or hiring a small plumber directly?

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dirtshow t1_j7poa50 wrote

Plumber gave them the exact labor charge of $2500. You can assume the other number includes all materials

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elfofdoriath9 t1_j7pt70j wrote

> You are also not factoring in any stock besides the water heater. Youre probably talking an additional $300-$500 in piping, valves, a new PVC vent, possibly a new wall to hang it on.

Exactly. We had a tankless water heater replaced last year, they had to put up an entirely new pipe wall, it looked like a lot of new hardware.

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JerrkyD t1_j7r6r1j wrote

One day you may look back and say, "I remember when I paid only $4400 for an in demand water heater". I have a plumber that I think is pretty reasonable. I told him I had heard that there were so many plumbers and electricians planning on retiring over the next 10 years that they will be able to charge what they want because there aren't enough young people going into the trades. His response: "What are you talking about I already charge whatever I want".

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RailRoad_Candy t1_j7pu52d wrote

Vocational professions are going to straight clean house over the next couple of decades. Well, the business owners will.

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gmh8 t1_j7pyxej wrote

Honestly that sounds like an extremely fair price for that. I would be more grateful

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LivingMemento t1_j7pki5y wrote

You aren’t. Be grateful s/he showed up.

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Icy-Neck-2422 t1_j7pfi20 wrote

That sounds absolutely reasonable to me.

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Mission-Meaning377 t1_j7pubh2 wrote

It's a fair price. Anyone who has ever ran a service based business knows that the hourly rate includes much more than what goes in his pocket. (Labor Overhead - all insurances (auto, GL, WC, etc.), payroll taxes, health insurance, field overhead - truck, tools, fuel etc; home office overhead - training, licensure, certifications, phone, computer, carrying costs) just to name a few

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nattarbox t1_j7po719 wrote

I got charged $500 for ten minutes of work by a plumber recently, and that’s after calling like 20 different guys.

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that_was_funny_lol t1_j7poth3 wrote

You paid $500 for their ability to do the work properly in 10 minutes so you didn’t have to call one of those 20 different guys again. I’d say you got a deal…

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nattarbox t1_j7ptfay wrote

Yeah I mean I was happy to pay it, and very happy with the work, and super duper happy that a leak was no longer happening lol

Just giving op some context

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benck202 t1_j7pw4a1 wrote

I recently had to call our hvac/plumber because the furnace wouldn’t cycle on. Turns out one of my kids had accidentally flipped a kill switch in the basement I didn’t even know existed. $300 for him to show up and turn a light switch. Did I feel stupid? Yes, but that’s what you get for eating up an hour of an expert’s time (including travel time) for a small problem.

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closerocks t1_j7qs006 wrote

This is awfully close to home. Bought a house in July, it gets cold, heat doesn't work. It's important to know that we have a gas furnace.

I check everything I think of and it looks fine. Call the heating contractor, couldn't make it for a few days but since it wasn't horribly cold, we were okay with waiting. A day later I am talking it over with my partner and I showed her the red switch on the wall that says oil burner emergency shutoff. I tell her "this is a switch for oil burners, I don't know where they put the emergency shut off switch for the gas furnace". We both stop and look at each other then the switch. It's turned off. I flip it on, the gas burner starts up.

I don't know who is the bigger idiot. Me for trusting the labeling, or the furnace guy for not fixing the labeling. Fortunately I was able to cancel the heating contractor visit in time and I didn't get charged a fee.

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yacht_boy t1_j7sqhrr wrote

I was a licensed boat captain for many years.

We had a small boat in our fleet that needed an outboard engine repair. I was sent to pick it up from the mechanic and bring it back. I went to the office, got the key, went to the boat, it wouldn't start. Tried for a few minutes, called the guy at the office.

He walked down the dock, got on the boat, inserted the kill switch clip that is standard on all outboards (and was attached to the keychain on the boat that I drove daily for a living) into the kill switch holder, turned the key and started the engine, and walked away. Never even said a word to me.

I have never felt so stupid in my entire life.

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ApolloSimba t1_j7qgtvh wrote

Lol I did this over the weekend by accident. Luckily figured out it was the switch before we had to call anyone.

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jrs1982 t1_j7ufm3b wrote

There’s a saying in the trades “your not paying me for the hour it took me, your paying me for the years and experience it took me to be able to do it that fast”. Don’t cheap out on the trades. There is a reason someone is dirt cheap.

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nattarbox t1_j7ul361 wrote

we say that in graphic design too

sometimes people listen

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Zinjifrah t1_j7qhoqm wrote

I don't know when you got your work done but if it was this week, consider yourself blessed you got a plumber. They're balls to the wall with busted pipes.

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unclepeteusa t1_j7py8ce wrote

The Home Depot product lines are reverse engineered with price point in mind. They are generally not the same quality as what you would get from a better or more reputable “supply house”. Product should last longer than Home Cheapo quality. Still sucks this happened, sorry.

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BackItUpWithLinks t1_j7q3u69 wrote

I’ve heard that over and over for years so I looked into it when I was looking at faucets and toilets for redoing my kitchen and bathroom.

I was told for years the “Home Depot version” is inferior, and that’s (mostly) wrong. Home Depot does have cheap(er) Koehler products but they have different part/product numbers. If the part/product numbers are the same, it’s the same product. So if you call a supply house and get a number then go online and find the same number, it’s the exact same product.

So when the plumber tried to tell me the $580 K-22973-VS faucet I found at Home Depot was lesser quality than the $820 K-22973-VS he was going to get from the supply house, I asked him for the product number and he balked. I told him I talked to Koehler and all the sudden he lowered his prices to Home Depot/Lowe’s prices. That’s when I told him to fuck off and I’d supply all the hardware and just pay him hourly.

I don’t know about rinnai specifically, but now I assume any reference to “the supply house” is a way to pad the bill for extra profit.

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Budget-Celebration-1 t1_j7rheyk wrote

This is true too. There are a ton of dumb plumbers using this line when you’re exactly correct.

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DooDooBrownz t1_j7prcct wrote

did he have to do any sort of hard water mitigation as part of the install? i've had some friends who got tankless and didn't do that and their systems got crudded up and crapped out very quickly

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tomcat3121 t1_j7q4jhb wrote

Check the quality of the water in your town. I put in a Navien 4 years ago and just to remove it. The water in the town ate the heat exchanger and Navien wouldn't stand by the warranty.

I paid a about 5200 when I had mine put in.

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liptoniceteabagger t1_j7qouyo wrote

Sounds slightly high based on my experience, but not outrageous. Plumbers are also in high demand at the moment , so you likely paid extra from that.

I also think you are making some wrong assumptions about the cost breakdown he gave you. He may have been at your house for 6 hours, but that hardly accounts for a lot of the backend labor that goes into a project like that, including buying various other materials needed for the install since the equipment does not come with all the necessary piping and valves needed, and then going to pickup all the necessary materials, potentially at multiple different suppliers since some materials are hard to acquire at the moment.

His statement about his supplier being more expensive than HD is absolutely true as well. Almost all equipment and tools sold by HD or Lowe’s are of lesser quality than the same exact product sold from a contractor supply house. That’s how the big box stores make huge profit , they basically pull a bait and switch on unaware homeowners.

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anurodhp t1_j7r8sww wrote

home depot units and other units are usually not the same thing. look at the SKU. home depot is so big that it can get "custom" stuff.

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Dereker77 t1_j7q9c2h wrote

Got charged $1400 to have a faulty shutoff valve replaced under me sink before it became a problem.

Had to call 4 plumbers to get one to show up. Demand >>>>>>>> Supply in this scenario unfortunately.

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random12356622 t1_j7qzth5 wrote

Things that are for your house - annoying/difficult to replace things that you need. - You shouldn't shop by price, you should shop by does this product do what you want, and how long do you expect the product to work.

A lot of things aren't a Go Pro - just throw it out and no problem.

Now hot water heater, no hot shower, it does effect your quality of life significantly even if it is for a day or 2 that it doesn't work.

Lots of things are made cheaply now - Washers/Driers/Refrigerators/Dish washers - none really effect your life as much as no hot water.

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RhaenyrasUncle t1_j7r0oa4 wrote

Seems a bit high, though I don't know the specs of your water heater. Is it extra fancy?

I recently got an emergency hot water heater installed on a Sunday of a holiday weekend for $2700. It would have been $2200, but there was an extra $500 for holiday/emergency install.

The install took all of ~20 minutes. Drain, remove, install, connect.

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Te4646 t1_j7r12iw wrote

Yeah I paid more than that for a similar system last year

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buck_II t1_j7qnzxk wrote

That sounds about right.

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BasilExposition75 t1_j7r95bi wrote

I had my hot water tank go the first month of the pandemic. That sounds about what I paid.

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Budget-Celebration-1 t1_j7rgvg5 wrote

I paid about 2500 for a days work from a really good plumber before. But he did what I though was 2 days very quickly. So it was worth it. It sounds like he just didn’t bother getting a decent price on the unit. It might be true he paid that much and didn’t bother to look. Sometimes the supply houses have a better product with similar sku. You really have to understand the costs going into this.

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knoxharrington_video t1_j7rq3sw wrote

Sounds pretty good. Had a water heater tank replacement. Cost $2000 and took the guys maybe 1.5 hrs to complete

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BostonBopper OP t1_j7rwf3q wrote

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. Really very helpful! I think the jury is still out on the HD vs. Supply House thing, but at least I am not a special case of getting screwed…we’re all getting screwed if so.

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dunksoverstarbucks t1_j7rwrpu wrote

I had a regular Heater replaced and it was $2600 being that tankless cost more anyways I’d say it’s in the ballpark

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RockHockey t1_j7snl7d wrote

Don’t forget your tax credits

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KM77777 t1_j7uclo2 wrote

Lucky he showed up.

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MK0FTEN t1_j7xhbg1 wrote

As a plumber I appreciate all the support here. Thank you 🙏 for the support.

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farmingmaine t1_j7rfs9h wrote

People don’t realize that you can do it yourself if you know how to read. I had the time to do it so I fixed my furnace two times since buying this house. The second time all the little labels fell off and I got two wires wrong on the circuit board. Called my oil supplier and tech came out and figured it out in fifteen minutes. $130.00 service fee. LOL. But if your busy with life you have to pay for the convenience. I gutted my bathroom and tiled it. The works. Not perfect and two years later I need to cut a couple of trim pieces. Use Schluter as underpayment for tile. Awesome product.

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Rideyourbike1 t1_j7q6ij5 wrote

Should be about $700-$900 for the install. The unit should be around $1800

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dirtshow t1_j7pp6je wrote

$400/hour is a fucking scam but yeah not atypical. If ever an industry needed to be popped in the mouth by a recession.

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capta2k t1_j7ppno3 wrote

Bad news for you - Massachusetts isn’t producing enough plumbers for reasons so it’s only going to get more expensive in the future.

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dirtshow t1_j7pq47t wrote

Discretionary spending dries so no more discretionary remodels, but yeah up here it'll probably just even out a bit for a few years. Then back to gouging

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Ok-Nefariousness8541 t1_j7pq02p wrote

How did the water heater get there? He shouldn’t be paid for his time driving to and from the supply house for the parts needed? How did the old water heater get removed? Disposed of?

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dirtshow t1_j7pqxuv wrote

Great so add 2 hours a full days work. Still a scam. No way you can defend that rate.

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RailRoad_Candy t1_j7ptlwe wrote

How's that college degree working out? Not calling YOU out specifically, just all the kids who are like "Eeeww, Votech..."

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benck202 t1_j7pvtpi wrote

Excited to see how you deal with your next plumbing emergency without a plumber.

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