Submitted by riski_click t3_115muwl in boston
Comments
Pattyooooooo t1_j92urin wrote
idk it feels pretty crazy that anyone could reach the third rail right now. you'd have to go down onto the tracks which is obviously not where anyone should be
nebrija t1_j94xxfz wrote
Yeah anyone in their right mind wouldn't go down there.
ThatGuy0nReddit t1_j95bmr5 wrote
What if there’s a dunks gift card down there
Sayoria t1_j92pua9 wrote
For Boston, city of 100 year old motorized sardine cans that run every 45 minutes, this is definitely a big ask.
willzyx01 t1_j92oiau wrote
Barriers have to be placed on the platforms. Drunk people will break said barriers. Old trains can't stop exactly on their marks. Barriers are expensive. MBTA doesn't have any money.
Celticsddtacct t1_j92p015 wrote
While all true, safety barriers are used in other parts of the world to great success. Just another example of the sad state of the mbta
nerdponx t1_j92qc0t wrote
This just seems like a low priority investment compared to getting the trains actually working consistently and paying conductors fairly. this is a rare accident anyway, it just doesn't seem worth it from a cost benefit perspective.
anarchy8 t1_j92z859 wrote
There wouldn't be any conductors if we had modern trains and signaling systems.
spedmunki t1_j94ms3l wrote
Copenhagen trains are completely automated and run 24/7
WaitOk4606 t1_j95c5o2 wrote
But that's in a first world country
IDCFFSGTFO t1_j95qje1 wrote
When you roll over and play dead for the Nazis, you end up with really good rail systems.
WaitOk4606 t1_j960xy0 wrote
Spare me. America has committed plenty of war crimes and atrocities and we don't have a functioning transportation system.
spedmunki t1_j9a68a8 wrote
Their metro began operation in 2002, dingus
IDCFFSGTFO t1_j9a9v8o wrote
Sure and they were the first trains they'd ever seen.
Doctrina_Stabilitas t1_j9ajs92 wrote
The unions at other cities like Toronto where the capability has been introduced right against that
New York can run on one perso opposition but the union successfully fought the elimination of the second conductor with a massive strike a while back
free_to_muse t1_j93djy2 wrote
Lots of subway systems work wonderfully and don’t have safety barriers. Why pick on the MBTA.
Anxa t1_j944fmx wrote
It's kind of a "yeah both" situation. Safety barriers would be better. But absent them, it's very much you have to be trying to touch the third rail.
Not directly relevant but I remember one time the red line broke down between central and Kendall, and we had to walk back to central. They had these alarm things set up on the third rail all over the place that presumably would light up if they detected current. None of us went anywhere near it regardless.
Sheol t1_j9354y1 wrote
"Things that work everywhere else won't work here because we're special"
psychicsword t1_j96mbga wrote
No one is saying that they won't work. They are saying that investing millions into them right now isn't the best investment when there are far worse deficiencies in the MBTA system.
When we have had people fail through stairs to their deaths at MBTA stations, then the risks of the being dangerous electricity in areas you are clearly not supposed to go isn't the problem we should be fixing.
Anustart15 t1_j94h7ue wrote
>Old trains can't stop exactly on their marks.
That's not really an issue, it's more that we have different train sets with different numbers of doors. Also that we have such a backlog of much more important maintenance that it really isn't a priority
resonant_waves t1_j92yv8b wrote
Putting up barriers would be a huge undertaking for the MBTA as it requires the trains to stop in the exact same spot every time they pull up to the platform. This would require replacing the existing signaling system and train cars. Much of the T uses an outdated analog signaling system, which is only now being replaced with a digital system. Likewise much of the T's rolling stock is decades old and won't be fully replaced for another decade or two.
StarbeamII t1_j93p37u wrote
You can make the doors on the barriers wider than the doors on the train to give you some leeway. There are also vertical barrier doors that don't care about door positions.
bakgwailo t1_j93o3g9 wrote
Well, technically they are fully replacing the rolling stock and signals on the orange and red as we type. Unfortunately it's all gone to shit and years behind.
TedToaster22 t1_j93epom wrote
They're called platform screen doors and they're standard in much of the world. Safer for riders and cheaper for agencies as less incidents like this tragic one occur. Since it's such a slam dunk it's unlikely we'll ever do it here.
shyjenny t1_j93k0vu wrote
I have seen them, but mostly on monorail systems
There aren't platform screen doors in LA, NYC, Chicago, DC, most of London
Trivia: Invented in Boston
BACsop t1_j93z6zl wrote
Platform screen doors are pretty much standard on new metro lines in Europe and Asia nowadays, and many cities have retrofitted old lines to add platform screen doors. North America is unique in not moving in this direction--the only project with them on the continent I'm aware of is the new Honolulu automated metro.
alexbaguette1 t1_j99dbmi wrote
The Toronto Ontario Line is meant to have them, however knowing Toronto, it will probably be 2050 before it's finished.
BACsop t1_j9ao5bz wrote
Interesting--I didn't realize this!
ppomeroy t1_j946yl7 wrote
MBTA cannot do it because the current rolling stock varies. On the Red line they have 2 different types with varying measurements and the CRRC will make it 3. Orange has 2, Green has 3, and eventually 4. Until all of the rolling stock has the same measurements they cannot even consider platform gates.
TedToaster22 t1_j94l6gj wrote
Old orange line cars have basically been unofficially retired, green line type 10s will replace the entire fleet, new red line cars will eventually be a full fleet replacement. Blue line you could do it now. Point is, PSDs should be part of the respective fleet replacement projects IMHO.
pinklittlelamb t1_j93apou wrote
We still use leaches in the hospital. Happened this week in my world lol
KayakerMel t1_j945bvs wrote
Well, yes, but not for the same reasons as a few centuries back. Although I wonder how often blood letting accidentally treated the condition (compared to how often it worsened and killed people).
Pyroechidna1 t1_j958e8z wrote
I’d rather electrify the commuter rail than invest in platform edge doors
FineIllMakeaProfile t1_j97p2cu wrote
But... Barriers would also be a bit like the package warnings "food will be hot after heating."
It shouldn't be necessary to put up a barrier when the tracks are so far below the platform. If you're going to trespass on the tracks you're risking your own life. I hate the part of our society that has made it necessary to anticipate every stupid thing some rando might do.
alexbaguette1 t1_j99dwsl wrote
While it would be nice, ignoring the issues with rolling stock, doing such a think would cost several billion dollars (based on case studies of other systems which have considered adding them). As of now, if the MBTA had that money, it would be better spent elsewhere making sure we actually have a functioning system where trains don't burn to the ground.
DooDooBrownz t1_j9c656u wrote
in 300 years? more like "what the f is this electricity?"
alligator412 t1_j938i2n wrote
Just curious, why is it safe to cross the tracks on the park street station? I assume those are protected somehow?
andr_wr t1_j9390lp wrote
There's no third rail on the Green Liner - it's overhead power.
Trpdoc t1_j93lgs9 wrote
What the hell does 3rd rail mean. Everyone talks about it like it’s so obvious
enyopax t1_j93ln6z wrote
It's a live rail, meaning it has an electrical current running through it. It's what powers most subways. There is usually a plate that contacts it from the train but if you accidentally (or purposely) touch it, it will light you up.
75footubi t1_j93qj5k wrote
Fun Fact: the third rail on the Boston systems (red, blue, orange) almost always don't have covers. This is not something that's a part of their design standards. On every other subway system I've done work for, they at least attempt to keep covers on the third rail.
As someone who's worked as a consultant/contractor for several different transit and rail agencies, MBTA's approach to ontrack safety is downright terrifying.
TiredCr0codile t1_j93vsvs wrote
What's the deal with no covers? Does it require retrofitting the train?
75footubi t1_j93w7wk wrote
I don't know the exact details of why MBTA doesn't have them, but in the other systems I've worked for, the little paddle on the rail car that contacts the third rail does it on the underside, so a cover doesn't interfere with that
TiredCr0codile t1_j943ho9 wrote
The MBTA is probably the poorest run govt agency I've encountered so far.
3rd rail incidents on MBTA are pretty rare however. If someone illegally enters right of way and falls on one, that's on them.
They typically de-energize whenever contractors need to work on ROW.
75footubi t1_j94ds7e wrote
>They typically de-energize whenever contractors need to work on ROW.
The procedures/"lock out/tag out" process, at least from the contractor POV seems very loosey goosey and there's a lot less emphasis on exclusive track occupancy and defined on track protection methods than I'm used to.
TiredCr0codile t1_j94rv77 wrote
I don't even know what their lockout tagout procedure is. Whenever I work out there I work as if it's live
75footubi t1_j95ect8 wrote
Yeah, always work as if it's live, but still, when you're on a hirail vehicle, not being 100% certain that another train isn't going to come on to your track is terrifying
TiredCr0codile t1_j95hau5 wrote
I think they are pretty good for on track work.
SilentButtDeadlies t1_j95tikq wrote
They deenergize it for non revenue hours service I think, but you still are supposed to act like it's live otherwise you get in a bad habit. Most of the work I've done was during revenue service so it was active. I've met some people who have touched it and lived.
TiredCr0codile t1_j95z0ar wrote
Due to staffing, it's pretty tough to get access during ROW these days
SilentButtDeadlies t1_j9628xv wrote
Yeah, I don't work on mbta projects anymore thank God, but we had several projects get cancelled around the time of the orange line shutdown due to all the staffing shortages.
TiredCr0codile t1_j97ngbc wrote
Wish I could say the same!
Bald_Sasquach t1_j965yop wrote
I would guess so actually. I haven't looked for the contact pads on the orange or red lines but you can easily see the blue line's plates rubbing along the top of the third rail, sparking every now and then. They stick down and out from the train so yeah a cover would be in their way.
AccomplishedGrab6415 t1_j96mk75 wrote
"pickup shoes" as they're called use the top of the 3rd rail on all of our heavy rail lines.
Blue of course only uses 3rd rail between downtown and Bowdoin. It switches to overhead catenary at airport.
hannahbay t1_j943kw1 wrote
I didn't even know you could cover those, seems like it would be a no-brainer for safety?
75footubi t1_j94efwy wrote
It's less about rider safety and more about trackside worker safety. Even platform barriers are more about protecting the train drivers from the trauma of someone stepping out in front in a suicide attempt than protecting riders from doing so.
AccomplishedGrab6415 t1_j96mw0j wrote
It's one more thing they'd have to maintain and reinstall when doing track work. I've heard stories from the inside about parts being deliberately left off trains after being repaired that don't risk safety or operation, but will protect the mechanicals from premature failure and weather corrosion. I'm told they leave them off because "it's easier."
Tedroe77 t1_j93q43v wrote
Or pee on it. Don’t pee on it either.
TiredCr0codile t1_j93vy8u wrote
You could walk on it as long as you don't have one foot on the ground and jump onto it (not recommended) haha
andr_wr t1_j93qu04 wrote
Subway trains get electric power from an electrified rail or line placed somewhere in the tunnel. Many trains get power from a third rail because they run inside short/small tunnels. Other trains get their electricity from an overhead power rail or power line because the tunnels are taller/larger.
The third rail is a rail that is usually built next to and higher than the two rails that support the train's wheels. The third rail will be on one side of the train but doesn't always stay on the same side of a train. Typically at stations, the third rail is farthest from the platform.
No matter if a train gets its power from a third rail or from an overhead wire, most subway train's get about 600 volt direct current electricity. Some subway lines have lower voltage power and others slightly higher. Because of this high voltage it is very dangerous. (For reference, car batteries are 12 volts, for example.)
Trpdoc t1_j93yj3f wrote
Ding ding ding best answer!!
wcruse92 t1_j93lnn9 wrote
It's the rail that powers the train.
Trpdoc t1_j93mgwv wrote
Seems kind of unnecessary, like why can’t they just hide it
trowdatawhey t1_j93mzof wrote
It is hidden after the 2nd rail. You didnt even know where it was until now
Trpdoc t1_j93nb2f wrote
Didn’t even know there was a second rail!
bacon_and_eggs t1_j93qxa9 wrote
we dont have a monorail though, d'oh!
NotAHost t1_j93s2rj wrote
Did you think all trains were unicycles or something?
Trpdoc t1_j93ytzl wrote
Nah bro thought the mice biking were powering it!
Calvert4096 t1_j9465lx wrote
I fear for the future of this country
Justtryme90 t1_j93x1rw wrote
I mean.. there are two tracks... those are rails.
Trpdoc t1_j93ywni wrote
That all sounds like 1 rail where I come from
Justtryme90 t1_j941hrv wrote
Do you come from somewhere other than earth....?
dogs-and-snacks t1_j93p4d6 wrote
They do hide it that’s why up until an hour ago you didn’t know what or where it was
bakgwailo t1_j93nt46 wrote
It's fairly obvious to anyone who uses a subway.
Trpdoc t1_j93o3i2 wrote
Used a subway for 5 years had no clue
bakgwailo t1_j93q37g wrote
I mean you never noticed all the big signs warning about death and the third rail over the third rail?
Trpdoc t1_j93uqif wrote
Yes I saw it. I just have no idea what it is and apparently nobody else here does either
Se7en_speed t1_j943vee wrote
So an actual answer. There are two rails that the train rides on, these are a few feet apart and you can see them if you look down at the tracks. These are just metal and would be safe to touch (if there isn't a train coming). On heavy rail subway lines (not the green line) the train gets power from an energized third rail that is slightly to the outside of these two riding rails. It's also slightly elevated off the ground so that it doesn't short circuit to the ground. That is how you can tell which one is the third rail.
bakgwailo t1_j94huq4 wrote
I mean pretty much everyone responding to you knows what a third rail is and is explaining it to you.
Trpdoc t1_j94mve4 wrote
The god responses came later
TheSukis t1_j94q1da wrote
They’re not sending their brightest
General_Liu1937 t1_j9z9ujt wrote
Fun fact: Blue Line uses catenary power when above ground after passing Airport. It is dual modular because it is said there was problems with the third rail use being so close to the ocean (Revere Beach and Wonderland).
The24HourPlan t1_j93rtof wrote
Cutting medicare
andr_wr t1_j93zqk7 wrote
What a Boston answer. 😅
The24HourPlan t1_j94d1mk wrote
Every category has it's third rail. For instance, the third rail of r/Boston is asking a serious question with the expectation of receiving a serious answer.
damariscove t1_j94c4ho wrote
Why are we downvoting this comment? Don't we want to encourage curiosity? Especially the life-saving kind?
TiredCr0codile t1_j93vnnr wrote
It's on the inner side of track typically (far from the platform). The train has a shoe which pulls power from 3rd rail.
Red line and orange line are powered by 3rd rail. Blue is overhead and 3rd rail. Green is overhead.
About 1 ft tall, very noticeable if you look for it.
hannahbay t1_j943gbw wrote
If you look at the track, there are the two rails that form the track, that the wheels rest on. And then there is a third rail, separate, that provides power to the trains.
Gorlitski t1_j95b6vw wrote
you could have typed fewer words in to google and gotten the answer faster
DickBatman t1_j95dq96 wrote
> Everyone talks about it like it’s so obvious
There's a reason for that
what_comes_after_q t1_j94bbqb wrote
Trains travel on two rails, this is what you think of as a railroad track. Subways can have a third rail. This is not for steering the train, but for carrying electricity.
spektyte t1_j94ynwm wrote
So you have the two rails the train travels on, and then a third "rail" which is really just a thick (like, several inches thick) wire carrying about a thousand amps of current. The train has another wire that drags along this third rail as it moves, drawing current and making the motor moves.
Since it takes about 1 amp of current to kill a person, touching the third rail is usually a pretty quick way to get yourself killed.
Jackpicks51 t1_j95inws wrote
The third is not live constantly only gets you if you touch the third rail and another metal completing the circuit and shocked to death As kids we used walk the third rail for a hits and giggles . . you can walk it just don't touch anything else . 2 feet on the third rail no problem 1 foot on one foot on another rail huge mistake. Did he fall or !!!???. Walking the tracks still safer than train surfing!
Trpdoc t1_j95jq8w wrote
What the hell is train surfing?!!
LadyCalamity t1_j992syy wrote
Riding on the roof of the train. Not really possible in tunnels but dumb kids do it on elevated/outside trains. You can find videos on youtube of kids doing it. I know it was popular in NYC in like the 80s/90s or something, died out for a bit, and now seems to be having resurgence. And yes, kids have lost limbs and even died doing this.
cityofmonsters t1_j97xzow wrote
https://www.mdpi.com/applsci/applsci-11-08410/article_deploy/html/images/applsci-11-08410-g001.png
I found this good picture of it because I also had no idea what it means specifically. Like I know train tracks are dangerous, but IF the 3rd rail was fine to touch and you put me on the tracks and told me to touch the 3rd rail, I would have no idea what to touch.
General_Liu1937 t1_j9z99bu wrote
3rd rail is where the train gets its electric feed from. If you see on the tracks, there are 2 rails where the train runs on and a "third rail" that is raised up and parallel that has an electric current running through. The train has a few contact shoes on each car that basically rub against it and gain electric current, allowing it to operate. This is for the red, blue, and orange lines. The green line uses catenary, which has direct contact from overhead wires and uses a pantograph system, rubbing under the wire to gain an electric current.
KawaiiCoupon t1_j93qy22 wrote
It’s so easy to miss and I’m not even 100% sure it’s the one I think it is lol. It also doesn’t seem to be the literal third rail depending on which way you’re looking at it? Idk. Why isn’t it painted red or with like lightning bolt symbols???
eladts t1_j93tx68 wrote
Paint is not a good conductor, so it will render the third rail useless.
KawaiiCoupon t1_j93ubhb wrote
Thank you lol. Well someone more educated than me in this should still find a better solution!
hopefulcynicist t1_j9395vu wrote
Wires are overhead, no third rail.
f0rtytw0 t1_j94q3ss wrote
What if I am really really tall?
CriticalTransit t1_j97oh0i wrote
Wires are at least 15 feet high
wittgensteins-boat t1_j966nea wrote
For the Green line.
Orange. Red, Blue lines have an electrified 3rd rail.
CriticalTransit t1_j97ojoa wrote
Tangent but the blue line changes to overhead wires at Airport.
hopefulcynicist t1_j96cqn6 wrote
Yep, they were asking about the GL ‘grade level’ ped crossing at Park St.
Gold-Present-7670 t1_j939dct wrote
Green Line is powered by wires above the train
Boston_Dan_ t1_j95lthf wrote
Don't touch the pantograph.
RailRoad_Candy t1_j92y8io wrote
This is some Darwin type s##t. Was he rescuing a toddler that got thrown onto the tracks?
Excuse me while I jump into the polar bear paddock.
TDKevin t1_j93b0ln wrote
I saw two kids run across the tracks at fields corner, one had to be pulled back up onto the platform when the ashmont train started coming. It was scary as shit
loranlily t1_j94ielo wrote
I recently saw a guy off his face, stumbling and leaning over the edge of the southbound red line platform at Downtown Crossing. There was a train about to arrive and I was too far away to get to him in time.
Another person on the platform grabbed him and pulled him back just in time. My heart was in my mouth, I honestly thought I was going to see him die.
KayakerMel t1_j945nj5 wrote
I was at a Red Line station where a bunch of teens were messing around and one boy purposely jumped down into the tracks. Fortunately he climbed right out, but an MBTA worker came running over to get the kids to knock it off.
PM_ME_UR_LOON_PICS t1_j940o67 wrote
TBF if you're from somewhere that doesn't have trains then you might not have any idea that a reachable stationary piece of metal in the train station can kill you easily.
some1saveusnow t1_j94hwyt wrote
Last time at park street I was looking at the danger third rail signs and they were dirty af and most barely readable. When I was really young in the 90’s they were very clearly readable
[deleted] t1_j94q2jp wrote
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anurodhp t1_j93wjg1 wrote
Oh is this the third rail challenge I’ve seen on tik tok?
Dukeofdorchester t1_j940ghf wrote
That’ll thin the heard
Zestyclose-Quote-736 t1_j96n2lp wrote
This was a dear friend of my sibling, it was a horrible accident. Please keep everyone in your prayers in this horrible tragedy.
Jackamalio626 t1_j94ywko wrote
NO PADDINGTON
THE THIRD RAIL
Vegetable_Horror2359 t1_j93gfol wrote
This was the RED line and that is why there are still signs about it everywhere
NoButThanks t1_j94171m wrote
So is this the 3rd or 4th Massachusetts transit related death in as many weeks? 2 Worcester commuter rail pedestrian strikes. This guy. Another possible green line death from a train surfer that I saw here but can't verify.
Art0fTheDeal t1_j93fkvn wrote
RIP
[deleted] t1_j94s58c wrote
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SnooPineapples8744 t1_j95vqwv wrote
How about something covers the third rail or cuts power to it when the train isn't there.
joeschmo28 t1_j96i1ze wrote
Or we could just not go down on the fucking tracks and touch the thing that’s says do not touch
[deleted] t1_j9y5qeq wrote
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Cyphen21 t1_j96o5kw wrote
Sounds like a suicide.
[deleted] t1_j93n4nr wrote
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Jackpicks51 t1_j99wqer wrote
Yes one night lost a friend who lost his head
Small-Manufacturer69 t1_j947jc0 wrote
600 volts DC Baby!!!
[deleted] t1_j933d1g wrote
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Ok-Cat-8959 t1_j9457bp wrote
So this didn’t really happen and the guy didn’t die?
[deleted] t1_j930dqz wrote
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Celticsddtacct t1_j92nxyp wrote
People will look back at stuff like this in 300 years like we look back at putting leaches on people to suck out their bad blood. It cannot be that crazy of a project to put up barriers