Submitted by jWalkerFTW t3_z152ab in boston
They’ve been there seemingly every single day since this summer. Did they just open a new chapter or something? Why now? When will they leave? They’re obviously just putting east required recruiting hours in, since I’ve never seen them actually talk to anybody or announce themselves. It’s just weird.
Across all those years, I genuinely what their “conversion rate” is. How many people have actually said “you know what, I think I’m called to be a Jehovah’s Witness. Time to turn down a blood transfusion if I ever need it!”
Lifetime average is certainly greater than 1. Otherwise the number of witnesses would decline over time. Even if it is slightly greater than 1... the religion spreads exponentially.
Spread of religions (and other social movements more broadly) follow viral dynamics: if the avg number of converts is greater than the average number of of believers, the religion or movement grows exponentially. If it is less than 1, it decays exponentially. If it is exactly 1, it remains the same size.
Yeah, unfortunately memetics doesn’t work in our favor here. Religions that have ideas condoning spreadability and “till I die”-adherence are the ones that will climb highest in the race for frequency (I could’ve phrased that better but yeah).
Also add in religions that favor high birthrates...
I think Dune got it right... the far future of humanity will be more religious not less, due to "spreadability", fervency, and higher birthrates in religious vs. secular communities.
At least once a population becomes embedded in secularism, it’s exceedingly hard to revert back. Maybe not governmentally (see Iran 1979) but for the population itself. I don’t think we’ve seen an example of that in history (not least because widespread secularism is new) but I could be wrong. Religion needs parents to propagate down the generations, so once you cut that off, it withers and withers. Most religions throughout history have not a trace left.
Anyway that’s just my philosophical rambling.
Agree with a lot of what you said here, but I think we need to re-evaluate our idea of what "religion" in modern society.
Simplify religion to a "shared set of core beliefs + principles by a group that reinforces a specific view of the world", shift the focus from theism to cultural homogeny, and you can see the "new religions" forming. We see it on both the right and left, think MAGA/Trumpism or "woke"/anti-racist cultures.
There are tons of similarities between conventional religion and these new cultural belief systems. Religion isn't dying, it's just transforming. At the end of the day people still need a framework to view the world and make sense of things.
False, lifetime average of conversion has no net impact, people convert in to the religion and out. Every religion relies on having lots of children for growth. Got to brain wash them as children. See here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_religion
>Lifetime average is certainly greater than 1. Otherwise the number of witnesses would decline over time.
That doesn't follow. Conversion is not the only way to make new Witnesses. Some people are raised in the religion.
They've closed and sold a few meeting places ("Kingdom Halls") over the past few years. I'm pretty sure their developed country numbers are shrinking although overall numbers might be on the up in places with spotty or no internet.
I've heard that the point isn't conversions, it's to put members in an intentionally uncomfortable place with "outsiders" who are probably going to be rude or at least dismissive. It makes everyone outside their group seem hostile, and then you come back to your community and everyone likes you and praises the hard work you're doing (even though it doesn't actually accomplish anything).
I have no idea if anyone actually put any thought in to it like that. But it certainly seems like a reason why it would be worth continuing.
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I’ve lived here equally as long and have seen them, but never to this extreme level
fair enough, I just ignore them. if you really want to bug them you can ask them why they’re recruiting if there are only 144,000 spots in heaven and there’s 8.5m witnesses
That's not really a 'gotcha' for them though. They believe most people will be resurrected on a 'paradise Earth' after Armageddon.
Yeah, if you're really looking to pick a fight with some random followers, there's much better ammunition to be had.
Like the way the church systemically covers up child abuse. To the point where it's basically in their rules that the kid is lying unless someone else sees it.
Yeah lol I think the 150k spots are for the "executive" level of heaven that basically gets to run the goings on of paradise-earth after the apocalypse. But I think there's eventually an apocalypse sequel and the rest go to heaven or, if they don't do good with the new paradise earth, they all go to hell
They don't believe in hell or a traditional afterlife. When you die you stay dead until it's time for God to resurrect you. At that time the meek shall inherit the earth and all the wicked non-believers get killed off. The 144k act as judges. Source: I grew up in said cult.
Lmao. They don’t necessarily bother me, since all they do is stand there. But I have a close friend who’s JW family has only strengthened my position that they are a terrible, terrible cult
Yes, this is what blows my mind. Maybe I'm selfish but my thought process would be, what if the person I recruit takes my spot?
JWs know if they are going to heaven or not. It's 144k over all time and the rapture happens when the last person of that 144k dies. Most JWs firmly believe they aren't going to heaven and they are going to be reborn onto heaven on Earth.
How did they "know" if they are one of the chosen? Fuck if I know. Heaven vibes or something.
That’s going to a pretty epic hunger game at the end of time.
Current Weather in Boston:
Temperate: 39°F
Humidity: 36%
UV Index: Low
Jehovah Level: Extreme
wish them a happy birthday, they hate that
😂
Fr?
they're supposed to not celebrate any holidays or birthdays
Maybe they slowed down due to covid but I've seen them at T stations since 2012, so no they aren't going to go away.
That’s so weird though because yes, they’ve always been around but to this level? Not that I can recall
They just restarted cart witnessing in September after it was paused for a couple years due to Covid.
Cults gonna cult
You spelled “Cults gonna protect kid fuckers “ wrong.
They are very good at it
🤣🤣
Have you tried converting them?
My dad used to do this when he had some free time. He was raised Catholic. He isn’t super religious by any means these days, but he would turn into the most devout Catholic of all time when the jehovahs witnesses would stop by.
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Ha! Now that would be a tough sell
I dunno, celebrating holidays and birthdays has got to be more fun than standing at a T station trying to recruit for your cult.
Getting blood transfusions is where it's at
Best sacrilege ever.
My college roommate's mother used to invite them in when they knocked on her door and then scold them for harassing people.
As far as conversion types go they are pretty chill.
They have to know going into it that they are going to have a tough time making sales given that Boston types are into book learnin'
I have walked past them thousands of times and they have never once attempted to engage with me beyond a smile. I appreciate that they're not pushy.
They don't need to be pushy. They just need to be friendly enough to attract lonely and vulnerable people, since people that already have established support networks are far more resistant to the brainwashing.
Yeah, not defending their whole deal, obviously they’re a huge problem on the whole. I just appreciate that they don’t yell at people like some mission preachers do.
Yes sir! Very polite is all I've ever found them to be.
I know someone who’s family are JW… they are NOT chill by any stretch of the imagination lol
The ones at train stations just stand there and wish people a good morning at most. Seems pretty chill to me
Look into the cult. They are terrible, especially to their families. I don’t mind that they just stand there, but the organization is disgusting and the members do not act like good people in general
Now, do the rest of organized religion...
Their primary recruiting tactic is lovebombing. They flood vulnerable people with friendliness and a sense of belonging. This is especially effective on people that don't really have many connections otherwise, so it allows them to hold that person's social life hostage once the love starts becoming conditional.
I agree, I'll walk by them and they don't stop me and they're always smiling which I honestly have no problem with. If you're not harassing people or bothering them, do whatever you want.
It's not like those "charitable" organizations where they stand in front of you and say "you look like a nice guy! :D" and then try too hard to have a normal conversation with you up until they start asking for money.
> making sales
That pretty much sums up organized religion for me.
And you are the mark.
My neighborhood growing up used to get door to door JWs all the time. My two favorite memories of them: I had a babysitter who was Mexican and she pretended she couldn’t speak English. Days later they show back up with a Spanish speaker asking to talk to “the Mexican family who lives here” and my mom was like - I have no idea what you’re talking about. The second: my family was on our porch with our Labrador and some JWs starting walking up our staircase. The dog was very gentle and sweet, but didn’t like them for some reason and wound up chasing them down the block. Never saw them again.
Good dog.
I doubt it. I’ve been here for decades and I’ve always been around.
The typo makes it seem like you are one of the JW around the T. :)
Oh my goodness it does! Well, I will leave it.
Same, but I’ve never seen them to this level
ugh they're at Forest Hills every day. Sometimes another lady comes around with what feels like a "repent sinners" type sign
If you don’t sin Jesus died for nothing
CAN I GET AN AMEN
There’s a huge Jehovas building in JP. Always empty. What a waste of valuable space.
I’d take them at T stations over mailing their nonsense to people.
I abide by the George Carlin commandments:
Tell them you are an apostate, they will leave you alone.
Apparently they aren't allowed to associate with apostates
It used to be Hare Krisna's at airports, trust me that the witnesses at the T stations are infinitely preferrable.
Hare krishnas are anyday better than JW. Atleast they don't say unbelievers would go to hell. They play music dance and distribute very tasty good
They kept the tambourines in busines lol
If you approach them and ask $10 for a can of FixaFlat, are they supposed to oblige?
/asking for a friend.
I think we just found our golden goose
I like them more than the Scientologists.
The MBTA is a breeding ground for cults, just look at the number of Shen Yun ads
Question. Have you ever known a JW to just go away? Not likely
Sometimes they’d give out cookies and coffee at the middleborough / lakeville stop. But I never took any cause I’m too nice to pull myself out of the inevitable conversation…
Probably not, somewhere I read they're doing this now rather than going door to door.
What's the problem though? They seem to just talk to people that approach them and don't bother anyone else.
No problem. Just weird
That's life in the city. There's guys on two decker bikes that I hate but they get to be in public too.
I remember I got a couple of voice-mails from them during the pandemic.
144,000 of them are going to go away.
No and they’ll start walking your neighborhood and banging on your door soon enough.
Every stop today for me, they must be on a conversion press.
I don’t see any other religious group do this. It’s honestly annoying
Lol, yeah I definitely don’t see Hebrew Israelites screaming about the abortion Holocaust in downtown crossing or the common.
Religion in general is the devil lol
I meant train stations, I’ve honestly never seen them in the train stations, but def other parts of Boston
They must be having some kind of coordinated drive. Every time I go through Legion Parkway in Brockton a pair are there with their sign and lawn chairs.
I think other groups are situated around Copley Square and the Commons.
Then again, the Commons these days has someone from every religion and cult there trying to hook in people.
I’m pretty sure they’ve been there since the day the T first opened.
I’d love to see them face off with the crazy Bible beater in DTX.
Ngl they are extreamly creepy
Tell them you’re a seventh day Adventist and they will leave you alone immediately.
Short answer no
Are they the ones at Quincy center?
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are they looking to get jaylen browns autograph?
the only thing worse than jehovas witnesses would be the combination of jehovahs witnesses and adult autograph seekers
Does anyone stop and talk to them?
I’ve seen them at Ruggles nearly every M-F for the past six years. Nothing new.
Ive seen them around the Ruggles station for a while pre covid. They would never approach or speak to anyone luckily. I did once have someone approach me by the Northeastern ISEC bridge and when I made it very clear I wasn’t interested and started walking away they followed me and asked why not. Not sure which church they were associated with though
I've seen a lady at Ruggles asking people for a dollar nearly everyday
Oh yes, that’s Angie. She will definitely approach anyone and everyone
I had to tell her to stop asking me I got so fed up. I don't carry cash and I was also a broke college student so I wouldn't be able to anyways
Tell them you want to talk to them about Chad Green
The fun part about them is that JW aren’t supposed to hang out with people who aren’t in the cult so by trying to convert people they can be inadvertently fraternizing against their religion.
I always point them to the crazy Jesus lady at forest hills, like yall got something in common go on
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if every time they approach you, you request oral sex, then either they'll stop approaching you, or they'll stop annoying you depending on how convincing you are
They usually arrive in September to prey on the lonely college freshmen. They are disgusting. But you're right, they're usually gone by winter.
When them 20 degree days set in, we’ll see how committed they are to the cause
Interesting question. I've always wondered if they have a legal right to do so on MBTA property? Does anyone know?
As long as the carts have working wheels and they're not actively stopping people I think they meet the legal criteria of not being a dangerous nuisance.
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Who are the people that stand in couples front of a display of religious stuff and talk to each other all day long and never seem to interact with anyone else? They are always at Forest Hills.
There are other people who work alone and actively try to hand out materials, those folks look like Jehovah Witnesses - or at least they remind me of the folks who come knocking on my door occasionally.
They are JW’s. Take a look at the back of their stand
Took the T for six years, started driving to the office during Covid and have never looked back. Peace of mind is worth the extra 20 minutes a day in traffic.
I’d rather not contribute to the car pollution and congestion
Glad it works for you, I do take the T several times a month but the daily back and forth got too much.
I’ll take them over the fundies with the megaphones.
They've been there every single day since way before this summer. They've been at Forest Hills since I moved to Roslindale in 2011.
Let's all start being a bit hostile
No
Pro tip: In the spirit of sharing information on God, offer them a Bible (even if you don’t have one handy, just say you’re going to grab it) they’ll run away, black list your house and never come back.
I’ve never seen anyone talking to them, but they’re at least kind enough at my station to never even try to talk to anyone walking by.
Yes. Saw them today. It’s a rite of passage for people who join that church?
Yes. This is a cult indoctrination tactic that the Mormons use too. The gist of it is that once you have people sufficiently bought-in that they’re unlikely to just go rogue, you send them out into a world generally hostile to them. If they manage to get converts, great, but the main point is to teach the initiates that “everyone out there hates you, the cult is your only family. We love you. We support you. There’s nothing for you out there.”
When Mormons and JWs used to come to our door when I was growing up we’d invite them in for some water, let them sit down for a bit, and let them know emphatically we’re not interested in their religion but they can chill for a while. As satisfying as it is, meeting them with open hostility just makes the cult tactics more effective.
They’re required to do a certain amount of hours every month. It’s like a job, except you don’t get fucking paid lol
Wait you don’t even get Jesus Bucks?
Yes, or at least until the next invasive group of religious fanatics push them out. Part of the charm of urban life.
Ultimate weapon against people like this: sunglasses and headphones. They can see where you’re looking and you can’t hear what they’re saying
They don’t say anything lol.
Who cares. They’re far far less disruptive than the Hebrew Israelites screaming about the abortion Holocaust in downtown crossing or any other of the street preachers around there. They barely ever come up to you either, it’s more on you to come up to them.
They are like Climate Change believers. They state a date the world will end…and when it does not yet again…they just move up the date. 🤣
Bruh.
I have friends who are JW. They are nice people and do no harm. They are rooted in their beliefs and grounded. You can just tell them you are not interested in converting and they won’t push.
One of my closets friends has a JW family. Awful, awful people with awful, disgusting beliefs
What’s so awful about their beliefs?
Everything. They disown they’re own relatives for not wanting to be a JW, to the level of kicking them out and cutting off all contact. They are EXTREMELY misogynistic. Etc. Just look into it yourself
Well, I did. I’ve been friends with a JW for over 15 years now and she has always been one of the people I can rely on during difficult times. Her daughter is JW but her son is not a JW and they still talk daily and are very close. My Mom is in another country and also has JW friends for decades. Occasionally they want to talk about the Bible with her but she shuts them down. They still come back to her and maintain the friendship. On disowning someone, there might more to that story than simply not wanting to be part of JW.
No it’s in their practice. You know a family who is extremely atypical to JW’s and do not go by the normal teachings. I know a family who very much does, and it’s not pretty. You can do a few minutes of research and see that.
Well I know several JW families in more than one country and they all have the same practices. It sounds like you are judging a whole group by your one experience with that one family.
It sounds like you’re not telling the whole truth, or at least don’t care to look to far into their cult. It’s not based on “one family”, it’s based on common, public knowledge about their practices as a church and belief system. Which is borne out by this family
I have no reason to withhold truth here. Just sharing my experience with the JW families that I’ve met. Not one of them shunned me or their family members outside of JW.
Well I’m glad there are JW members who go against the basic teachings of their church. Either way, I still don’t believe you’re telling me the whole truth.
You have the right to believe what you want. Your beliefs are rooted in your experience. But just because someone disagrees with you, doesn’t mean they are not telling the truth :).
It’s more like what a stranger on the internet is saying doesn’t match up with the overwhelming experience of the majority of people, including myself. So, sketch
Show me the statistics that say the majority of people have this experience and we can talk. So far, we are both strangers on the internet sharing our personal experiences.
If you can’t do basic research into the basic beliefs of the JW or look into some reporting about their insular communities or how they treat people in general, well idk what to say. Not gonna do your research for you.
I mean, it’s ridiculous to the point of utter willful ignorance that you don’t know this stuff
Hi. Former member of said cult here. I escaped when I was 20, currently closing in on 50. They are extremely psychologically abusive to their own kids every step of the way. Members are only allowed to hang out with other cult members unless they're trying to convert someone. If you commit the unforgivable sin of disagreeing with the WT society's constantly changing beliefs you are removed from what is then your only support network. They really do suck.
I’m very sorry that you were forced to endure that. I can’t imagine how difficult it was, and how scary it must have been to leave. I hope you’re doing well nowadays!
Ehh, shit happens. Thank-you though. Currently I am enjoying watching them slowly go out of business every time a kingdom hall closes and gets sold. It's hard to sell "the apocalypse will be here any day now" for 140+ years (1881).
OP is right. If you were baptized as a JW and decide to leave, all your JW friends and family members are directed to shun you. If they don’t obey, they’re at risk of being shunned as well. The difference is whether you were baptized or not.
I wasn't baptized and my family is shunning me anyways🤷♀️ gotta love cults
I’m not surprised. It’s a gray area and unfortunately how you’re treated depends on optics and how it affects appearances, and not actual scriptural ‘justice’
I don't see a problem with it since they aren't harming you in any way. Their presence there doesn't affect you at all—you just think it's "weird".
It’s funny because I very specifically did not say I had a problem with it in any way, nor that they are harming me. I do have terrible personal experience with this particular cult, but I never said I had an issue with them standing around quietly.
Since we're choosing to take words at face value here, I also did not say that you had a problem with it. And remarking about how they aren't harming you does not need to be prompted by you saying that they are.
Anyhow, I'm not here to be cheeky. I am sorry that you had a bad experience with them.
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hotaspee t1_ix91bol wrote
no.
source: my decades of living here.