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TheLamestUsername t1_j270cls wrote

I read the title and thought “Man, realtors and landlords will try anything.”

153

DanieXJ t1_j293x7p wrote

At this point in the world, realtors and car salesmen are more transparent than the restaurant business 🙄

Now we're expected to tip those who aren't working for the tipped wage. God.

10

fullmetalalch t1_j27bnhs wrote

Yeah this is bs. It further reduces price transparency in restaurants and should be stopped before it becomes the norm everywhere. Just increase the menu prices and call it a day ffs.

80

LamboMI6 t1_j27b6tb wrote

Fuck this kitchen appreciation BS. I've seen this slowly become mainstream where they'll tack it on your bill without telling you. It's supposed to be an option no one's going to ask for that to be taken off.

Pay your employees a real wage and stop asking consumers to pay this bullshit feel good tax.

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jojenns t1_j27mdzx wrote

At some point that may happen. But what it looks like is 30 dollar burgers and 50 dollar spaghetti and meatballs. Restaurants typically have extremely thin margins. When their costs go up so does the prices. This is just to mitigate sticker shock. Its the same inflation no matter how it looks on the bill

−38

goose_juggler t1_j28m54d wrote

I would rather know what I’m paying than have mysterious fees show up in the check at the end.

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jojenns t1_j290hul wrote

I agree with you. The restaurants are just afraid to do it first because its going to look bad in the menu especially when a competitor hasnt done it yet.

1

corned_beef_balls t1_j2ayzx9 wrote

Who analyzes their restaurant bills to the point they would even notice a $1 increase to all items across separate visits?

3

agentile27 t1_j28m29s wrote

Taking that 5% kitchen fee and raising menu prices by 5% would not mean $30 burgers, the burger would already have to be ~$28.50.

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ohheysurewhynot t1_j27cn7u wrote

I mean, the owners could just… appreciate the kitchen.

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[deleted] t1_j278fi3 wrote

These restaurants are gonna put themselves out of business with all the fee-fucking. Tipping is bad enough.

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Jer_Cough t1_j28ynnc wrote

I've already curtailed my restaurant visits because for all but the highest end places, the experience is not worth the price anymore. Shrimp scampi for $29 and an absurdly priced drink before tax and tip? No thanks. One benefit is that I've knocked the rust off my cooking chops and some good stuff is coming out of my kitchen lately.

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aoethrowaway t1_j2b1tdm wrote

Same…can’t tell if I’m just becoming a grumpy old person or what, but now its $300-500 for dinner/drinks/Uber/babysitter. That’s a shitload of money.

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Acceptable_Tourist_4 t1_j27b7us wrote

I’ve worked for a few restaurants that have this now and honestly, there’s no way of knowing if the kitchen’s seeing [all of] the money. Supposedly it gets evenly distributed to whoever worked, ie similar to a tip pool distribution, and added to their paychecks. But who’s even tracking that? Who would know if they’re not getting the whole amount? It’s the same as getting a daily sales bonus… but not being told the day’s sales. Company’s just shrugs and says eh, you get paid what we give you. Take it or leave it.

My last job said it adds about $3/hour to the kitchen staff’s hourly pay. This is a place that also didn’t show FOH their tip pool, and it was like pulling teeth to get them to show us, if we wanted to see. Long story short: industry vet here and I don’t trust the kitchen fee, and I also agree that it’s being shadily snuck in as a triple asterisk in size 4 font and nearly cut off the bottom of the menu.

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albertogonzalex t1_j2755pg wrote

There are rules around how various restaurant staff can be paid, tipped out, etc. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe Kitchen staff cannot be legally tipped out of front of house tips. This fee serves the purpose of tipping out kitchen staff.

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cayenne0 t1_j2785pz wrote

just incorporate it into your tip. so if there's a 3% kitchen fee and you normally tip 20% then tip 17%

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Hype_x OP t1_j2790rq wrote

They have to pay out the tips to front of the house staff. So reducing tips hurts the front of the house.

The kitchen fee that’s got no legal standing. There is no way to know where it goes.

Maybe they should call it an owner appreciation fee.

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SparkDBowles t1_j2797bw wrote

Yeah. Fuck those waitstaff and front of house workers. It’s totally their fault. /s

−15

Tombstone_Shadow t1_j292s4j wrote

…and let’s be honest: does anyone really think that fee is going to the kitchen staff???

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CheruthCutestory t1_j29ksvj wrote

Exactly! They have to give their servers all tips although they still don't. These fees are all gimmicks to pay more.

Kitchen staff should earn more. They should get more from their employers but I'll happily pay I eat the food. But no way are they getting this money.

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hemingwai t1_j28xyip wrote

I’m now at the point where I ask when making a reservation if there are additional fees like this added to the bill. If they say yes, I say thanks but I’ll be eating somewhere else. Please let the ownership know that they lost a reservation because of it today.

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wandererarkhamknight t1_j272fae wrote

Probably smokescreen or something on that line is more appropriate, not bait and switch. I’m mostly going for take out nowadays. That too by calling the restaurant rather than using any app.

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bsnend t1_j28ri1x wrote

If that becomes a thing, I will just split 20% into 10% for tips and 10% for kitchen appreciation fee. I tip 20% only to not feel like an asshole - there is no law that I have to. If everyone does that, the servers will take care of eliminating kitchen appreciation fees.

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ieleiat_hogwarts_edu t1_j28rsyv wrote

I’ve noticed some restaurants put it in as a line item on the subtotal, so it looks like the tax is being calculated on top of that + also the suggested gratuity includes tipping on top of the kitchen fee. That seems wrong to tip on top of a service fee? The goal of better wages for staff is great, but don’t feel like the kitchen appreciation fee is the best way to achieve it.

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BOMinvest t1_j28t8j6 wrote

I just subtract this fee from my normal 20%, and then apply a 5% customer inconvenience fee. If they don't stop this practice, I hear that customer inconvenience fee might be raised to 8%.

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TwoforFlinching613 t1_j2959q4 wrote

That only hurts the server, who has nothing to do with that policy/fee. It does not make any kind of "point" to the owner who is actually responsible.

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BOMinvest t1_j29620u wrote

If they are not paying their kitchen enough to the point where they force me to cover for them? I pay 20% for a service tip. Service includes bus people, servers, and kitchen staff. If they want to specify 3% if that for the kitchen, that is fine. But if you expect me to pay it in addition, I draw the line.

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Budget-Celebration-1 t1_j2a80fs wrote

I think that’s how I’ll go about it in the future. Do you tip on the price of the meal or on top of the tax?

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BOMinvest t1_j2a98a7 wrote

I'll take the price of the food and tax, multiply it by 0.2, and then subtract whatever addition restaurant fee they charge. If they charged an additional 20% kitchen fee, I would leave nothing. If only 3%, I'd leave a 17% tip (or 15% if I am feeling taken advantage of)

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Budget-Celebration-1 t1_j2aa88c wrote

So you tip on top of tax? I didn’t know that was a formal thing in general. If you look at the suggested tip options it used to be most were before tax now that’s changing — more and more the suggestion includes the tax. In addition to tipping on top of the BOH fees frequently you tip on top of the tax. Whenever I see that suggestion I subtract another 5%

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BOMinvest t1_j2aajuh wrote

I think not including tax is standard, but as I accumulated more wealth I started to include tax as well.

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BOMinvest t1_j2aayta wrote

This is a straw man argument. Companies typically put their most vulnerable as the face of the company, so any impact to the company is felt first on the face of those companies.

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BOMinvest t1_j2a91qn wrote

I'll take the price of the food and tax, multiply it by 0.2, and then subtract whatever addition restaurant fee they charge. If they charged an additional 20% kitchen fee, I would leave nothing. If only 3%, I'd leave a 17% tip (or 15% if I am feeling taken advantage of)

3

Soul-Food-2000 t1_j290qnd wrote

Better than tips though. I'd rather pay kitchen than people to bring plates.

1

cocktailvirgin t1_j299x88 wrote

It passes the buck on to the consumer to pay their staff better. However, if kitchen folk were rewarded for taking on busier shifts and sweating, it's a cool idea. Otherwise, they get paid the same per hour for a dead Tuesday lunch as a cranking Saturday night.

1

Kingpine42069 t1_j29qcza wrote

restaurants are able to pass the CC fee on to you if they want, all they have to do is post a sign that says CC usage will result in 3% uncharge. Kitchen appreciation money is most likely designed to retain/recruit staff which is difficult these days

1

BostonBopper t1_j299jhv wrote

It depends. Are you a socialist?

−2

w0rdCS t1_j29snw1 wrote

A lot of ignorance in this thread - I've served tables in fine dining in the Boston area for years & the majority of the time the kitchen appreciation fee is well intended. The fact is that tipped FOH staff (servers/bartenders) often make much more than very hard working BOH staff (chefs/cooks/dishwashers) solely because they do so well on tips.

Fees like this help the people who work just as hard if not harder make more money so you can have very tasty food....if an extra few dollars on your bill is really a dealbreaker for you, then you probably should not be eating out.

−3

Hype_x OP t1_j29zay3 wrote

Why not just include the cost of paying the kitchen staff appropriately in the advertised price of the food.

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w0rdCS t1_j2aei6p wrote

Yes, this is an option that many restaurants choose or consider - the main thought process is that when you raise the price of menu items, the consumer does not understand the reason for it or where that money is going whereas when you do implement a kitchen appreciation fee at least the consumer understands that that portion of their bill is going directly to hardworking individuals instead of in the owner's pocket. On the contrary when I go out to eat, I am happy to see a kitchen appreciation fee rather than $38 entrees instead of $32 entrees because I understand the money is going to a good cause.

I think many people misunderstand how costly it is to run a restaurant - from increased rent to higher costs of the ingredients used to make the dishes you enjoy so much, the current economy makes it very difficult for restaurants to pay well, turn a profit, and ultimately survive. These reasons are why restaurants out of almost all types of businesses have the highest % of failing/closing down after being opened.

2

DanieXJ t1_j2a2q4a wrote

But, kitchen staff are staff right? Not tipped staff. Hence they don't get the lower wage to begin with. So, somehow it's my fault that the owner's a miserly asshole now?

Lord, this is why I don't eat out often. I'm more than up for tipping, but every single person these days seems to think they deserve to be tipped, whether they're making 15, 20, or more an hour, whether they're the owner even, or whether they're actually getting the tipped wage (6 whatever it is in the new year).

And, it's even more annoying because I too get paid shit, but it is literally illegal for me to get tipped. So, yeah, fuck the bait and switch taxes. Because that what it is an owner instituted tax.

3

w0rdCS t1_j2adhke wrote

No, kitchen staff are not being paid the $2.63/hour that serving staff are, but all included with tips servers/bartenders probably make upwards of $30-50/hr while cooks/dishwashers are making <$20 - so these type of fees are a good way to show appreciation to employees who often come in much earlier, work much later, and inn many cases work much harder for less money.

It is not their fault that you don't get paid well, or that it is illegal for you to be tipped (whatever it is that you do) - so it's pretty petty to hold that against them. There is no bait and switch (when the kitchen appreciation fee is actually being used as intended) the extra money is simply split and paid out to back of house staff in their paychecks.

0

DanieXJ t1_j2biaga wrote

2.63.... yeah, considering I just saw a news item saying it's going up to 6.25 or something along those lines in 2023, the rest of your post isn't even worth it to read. But, keep believing that I should be paying, instead of the workers walking away when they’re treated like crap. Or instead of the idiot owners are supposed to do, include the price of the prep in the food.... likes been done for 100 upon 100 of years...l

2

w0rdCS t1_j2bptsz wrote

Zero substantive points, minimal literacy, using emotion as an argument - you just don't seem like a very intelligent individual (and are probably a nightmare to serve when you do go out to dinner).

−2

man2010 t1_j271ljo wrote

Where's the bait and switch? It's not like they're putting a filet mignon on the menu and then telling you it's not available but you can have meatloaf instead

−6

and_dont_blink t1_j272wvh wrote

I believe they mean advertised prices, which a menu is (either in your lap or seen from the street). eg, if they have filet mignon on the menu for $30 but then the bill comes and there's a kitchen-appreciation-fee it's not really the fee-for-service that was advertised.

They could also mean they'd like to know if the money even gets to the kitchen, or if the fee itself is kind of a scam where the restaurant is just passing padding margins.

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Hype_x OP t1_j2728rg wrote

Menu

Filet $60

Bill

Filet $62

2

man2010 t1_j272h9j wrote

Menu:

"We charge a 3% kitchen appreciation fee for all bills"

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Hype_x OP t1_j276tig wrote

Tiny print at the bottom. Below the shellfish and steak are trying to kill you.

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man2010 t1_j279iib wrote

"It's the restaurant's fault that I didn't read the menu"

−14

Hype_x OP t1_j27bfft wrote

It’s really more annoying that they tack on some lazy fee that is “optional”

If it’s optional then give me options to not pay for the janitors heath insurance, the owners dividend, or the managements salary. I want complete control over which part of the business I get to tip. Maybe I am want to jilt the fish vendor that night!

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tacknosaddle t1_j28r14y wrote

You might be able to tell them to take it off the bill. Similar to if you go out with a large party where they tack on a gratuity and have really shitty service you can tell them to remove it as they can't force you to tip.

This seems like the kind of thing that the Attorneys General office should be looking into so that they are prohibited or at least made abundantly clear before you go to eat.

0

Wtf_is_this1234 t1_j28x4t4 wrote

They know 99% of people will be too embarrassed to ask to have it removed. It's a complete scam.

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tacknosaddle t1_j28y8uf wrote

That's why the AG should get involved, I'm sure there are laws about "hidden fees" or other consumer protection requirements that they could flex.

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_j28yc0z wrote

My guess is as long as it's disclosed before you order, it's legal.

1

tacknosaddle t1_j28z781 wrote

Businesses get popped all the time for contracts that have fees or other onerous requirements buried in the "fine print" of a contract. So even though it's "disclosed" it's still prohibited to hide it like that as a deceptive practice. If the kitchen fee is a small footnote on the menu it could be considered deceptive in the same way because an "ordinary consumer" would consider the listed menu price to be the pre-tax total.

1

man2010 t1_j27d2np wrote

You could just not go to the restaurant it bothers you so much

−8

TaffyApplekins t1_j296o94 wrote

Are you fucking kidding me?! I don’t think the general public understand anything about kitchen staff…. Although they don’t get paid as little hourly wage as servers, they make about 4x less because they don’t get tips. Kitchen staff works onwards of 12-14 hours a day if lucky and gets absolutely shit on throughout service. The least the restaurant could do is offer a kitchen appreciation fee that is divided among the back of the house staff. And for anyone who questions the fee… I recommend you work in a kitchen for 1 day (if you can last)

−9

Budget-Celebration-1 t1_j2a7u1o wrote

So the owner needs to raise the pay and include it into the price on the menu. Restaurant business is tough, but I do agree perhaps tipping needs to be less to FOH.

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TaffyApplekins t1_j2b8jx9 wrote

Agreed but then you’re going to have the same schmucks complain that the prices are too high… it’s a lose lose for the consumer. I’ve always liked the “beers for the kitchen” addition to the menu… just shows everyone that a little goes a long way for the team in the back…

1

Budget-Celebration-1 t1_j2brsc2 wrote

Well they are too high just fricken admit it. Don’t play games adding boh fees. That’s just how it is. It’ll all balance out soon because as a consumer I used to got out much more, now I am more price conscious and cool in more.

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TaffyApplekins t1_j2c0tg1 wrote

Do you know how much cost of food has gone up since Covid?! 10%-20% higher than before… this means that your $17 dollar dish (which cost around $5 at a 30% cost) is now $20-$22… doesn’t seem like much but those 3-5 dollars steer people away. Not only that but, the cost of rent, electricity, gas, insurance, operating fees, and upkeep are all going through the roof.

So, if you took the 30% cost of the $20 dish (which IMO is high) you spend $6 on food… leaving you with $14 which if you divided it evenly (which isn’t the case) you have roughly $2 per dish sold to cover each expense including wages…

So tell me that the system is flawed without getting upset over pricing… you can’t and wont.

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Budget-Celebration-1 t1_j2c15gv wrote

What’s your point about boh fees? I will say I’ve found ways in my personal cooking to save money. Changing a recipe or eating other foods.

1

TaffyApplekins t1_j2c1wti wrote

My point is… if you add a few it’s essentially a tip to the kitchen because nobody tips them out ever… the added feee would hopefully deter the consumer from tipping more to the FOH and the BOH would get their slice of the pie.

Go ahead, eat at home and change your recipes. That’s your prerogative. But for those that eat out, they need to understand the circumstances of what the other half of their dinner deals with. It’s a shame that cooking is glorified and everyone gets in a tizzy when they have to pay a small fee for the BOH to get a little respect.

1