_Karagoez_ t1_j64la8w wrote
Yup I’ve always heard Bostons airport being so close was a pro but it’s literally impossible to get to and from downtown during rush hour. The silver line being shit is a sunk cost and I feel like it’d be way better if they directed people with constant shuttles to the blue line. Chicago’s airport is an hour away from downtown but at least you can just plan accordingly and chill the entire time instead of running the gambit
[deleted] t1_j64mixc wrote
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vpofimportantstuff t1_j64o58j wrote
And the audacity to call the stop "Airport".
IndigoSoln t1_j65aopf wrote
Similar to how the Olive Garden is "fine Italian dining".
Soul-Food-2000 t1_j65n5mp wrote
“Boston” Market
YoudaGouda t1_j65vmrw wrote
Why you have to go dragging Olive Garden into this??!?! That place is magical, though the food is iffy at best…
SixSierra t1_j66p58d wrote
Nope, not a single word of Airport. It’s called O’Hare, that’s it. Just took that.
vpofimportantstuff t1_j6982cb wrote
We're talking about the MBTA blue line, not the CTA blue line.
_Karagoez_ t1_j64ngij wrote
It’s not terrible if you have constant buses running to and from the terminals which is far more achievable than making the silver line have a dedicated bus lane, increase frequency, etc
[deleted] t1_j64t37u wrote
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_Karagoez_ t1_j64tvp0 wrote
Yup, it shouldn’t be hidden tribal knowledge how to get downtown. When the silver line is 25 minutes away and you need the transit app to even determine when it’s gonna come next it’s a total shitshow
wallet535 t1_j6507a3 wrote
I’d do the Blue Line from Logan more often if it was free like the Silver Lie. Yes, I am cheap lol.
Visible-Education-98 t1_j650kri wrote
They do tho. There are free shuttle buses that take you to the blue line…they run every 3-5 mins.
_Karagoez_ t1_j651uzd wrote
I know but the discoverability is poor because they tend to be away from where the silver line stops. The silver line is on the huge map of boston public transit and those buses aren't. You have to keep in mind that tourists have zero idea what they're doing (nor is the burden on them). They then have to figure out how to purchase a CharlieTicket. Even I didn't realize that the 22 and 88 come every five min or so. I figured they had same frequency as silver line.
deathtopumpkins t1_j655tba wrote
Those buses actually are shown on the subway map as a thinner blue line, which is listed in the legend as "free Logan Airport shuttle bus".
pukekopuke t1_j65sq4k wrote
I have taken those twice and both times waited way longer than that (10+ minutes).
Meat_Popsicles t1_j655abb wrote
Are the Massport shuttles less frequent now? I've never had too much trouble waiting for them and getting to Airport station.
_Karagoez_ t1_j655ibk wrote
tbh no idea I've only relied on them when the silver line is busted as I live along the red line (damn you lack of red-blue connector)
commentsOnPizza t1_j674fde wrote
I've always wondered if the Red-Blue connector would be worth it compared to other projects.
Personally, it feels like a GLX from Union to Porter would be more useful for me. Or a GLX to Medford Square. How much are you trying to go Red to Blue other than the airport? For people on the Blue Line, it would open up commuting to Kendall Square easier, maybe South Station as well, though DTX and Chinatown aren't that far (Orange Line), unless you're looking to cross to the Seaport. A Blue Line extension to Lynn would get a lot more people on the subway. Resurrecting the Green Line A-Branch to Watertown would help a lot of people. Extending the Orange Line into Roslindale. Turning the Fairmount Commuter Rail into a new T line with frequent service would serve a large area and the heart of where Black people in Boston live. Making the Commuter Rail an electrified regional rail system with frequent, all-day service could make a huge difference - especially with the zoning bill that has density requirements near Commuter Rail stops. Using Track 61 to go from Back Bay to the BCEC and hook that up to good rail service. Giving Chelsea decent service (since it'll soon be the densest city in Massachusetts) maybe with the Orange Line forking at Sullivan or Assembly - and you could even extend that to the airport since the tracks go in that direction (and even back across the Blue Line tunnel into Boston). Or instead of forking the Orange Line, it could continue along the Grand Junction Path into Cambridge and to BU. It wouldn't exactly offer a connection to the Green and Red Lines, but it would run very close to Lechmere and Kendall.
I guess the Red-Blue connection has never felt as important to me as so many other wishes. The Green Line comes so frequently between Park and Government Center that it feels easy enough to get from Red to Blue (compared to so many other problems with the T) and I generally don't want the Blue Line, except to go to the airport. I guess of my dreams, a Red-Blue connector just feels like "yay, I guess I can shave 5 minutes off my airport trip now." Sure, that's fine, but I'd be more into projects that really opened up more places.
I've also always used the Blue Line for the airport. The Silver Line always frustrates the hell out of me. I'd rather change at Park, wait a couple minutes for a Green Line train and then change at Government Center for the Blue to take the shuttle than deal with the Silver Line. The Silver Line is so unpredictable. Between traffic and that absolutely awful switch over from electric to diesel, it's just nightmare fuel. Plus, the shuttles at the Blue Line are frequent and usually dedicated to one terminal rather than stopping at every terminal. Sure, if you're going to Terminal A, the Silver Line might be fine. By the time you get to Terminal E, it's annoying. I guess I've just always had good luck with the Blue Line and would rather deal with the transfer at Park than the Silver Line.
Again, I'd love to know if you see the Red-Blue connector differently or more worthwhile. It is slightly inconvenient to get to the Blue Line, but a lot of other places seem more annoying to get to.
drowsylacuna t1_j65tn8n wrote
They should have one of those automated trains that just goes in a circle between the terminals and the station.
LSDTigers t1_j65dhrs wrote
If.
Visible-Education-98 t1_j650dsl wrote
The MBTA was there BEFORE the airport was built. Gotta go find the Massport gang if you wanna kick balls.
TurnsOutImAScientist t1_j64ohhc wrote
Agree with the sentiment, but I'm guessing you have your order reversed and they put the airport a mile from the blue line.
[deleted] t1_j64sxpb wrote
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aray25 t1_j64zjal wrote
Technically, it was was not reversed. The airport predates the "Blue Line," and even the "East Boston Line" (the same service before color names were introduced). It does not, however, predate the BNH North Shore Railroad that used the same right-of-way.
Moohog86 t1_j659q17 wrote
East Boston tunnel was built in 1904. Airport was the 1923.
It was never on the bnh north shore right of way. That is behind down east cider, south of the blue line, pretty much abandoned. Nothing really predates the blue line right of way. It started as a street car line, but never changed much.
I even have a 1918 map with the 'blue line' on it but before the airport was filled in.
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spedmunki t1_j64vwuk wrote
Why could it not have been built under central parking…
Ordie100 t1_j64x56u wrote
For those of us who live in Eastie we would prefer not having to walk into the depths of the airport to take the train to work... It's a classic transit planning debate, do you screw over the people who live near the airport by diverting the line to the center of the airport or do you have shuttle buses
thebochman t1_j65jgbv wrote
Just need to move the airport at this point honestly, it’s great having it close to the city but with how fucked the city is on housing might as well use the space differently and build a new airport north
jtet93 t1_j65kdzx wrote
I’ve had this thought too. Isn’t hanscom already owned by massport?
immoralatheist t1_j65t6yl wrote
It is, but Hanscom is not remotely equipped to be any sort of replacement for Logan in so many ways. No train access, no highway access, only two runways, and both are too short for anything bigger than a 757 (maybe a lightly loaded 767), no real terminals, etc. Trying to make the necessary changes to use it to replace Logan would need to be more extensive and expensive than it would be to just make the various upgrades at Logan.
DaWolf85 t1_j664fdn wrote
Also half the airport is an active military base with access restrictions. And then the other sides of the airport are a national historical park and two conservation areas. It can't expand.
Plus, its only current transit connection is the 76 bus, which is, to put it mildly, a fucking embarrassment of a bus route.
jtet93 t1_j65tt7l wrote
Right, I mean, obviously this would be a massive, major project. But the one improvement you can’t make at Logan is reclaiming all that land. It would also have a big impact on height restrictions in the city. Just thinking out loud, I really only have a layman’s understanding of the benefits of each scenario. I like having Logan so close but I do think there would be benefits to moving it as well. Hanscom seems like the most realistic alternative because where the fuck else are you gonna put a whole airport in the GBA lol
immoralatheist t1_j65wb2g wrote
IMO the cost of building new runways and more taxiways, a whole new set of terminals, buying out neighboring properties, building a highway connection to the airport, building a train connection, and everything else involved would not be even close to worth it to get the land “back” (we never really had that land, the airport is all infill, it was just ocean before.)
I think just building a train to the airport terminals is the best thing to do, and would be a fraction of the cost of relocating the airport. Even just beholding an automated people mover to the terminals and train station wouldn’t be a bad option, and would probably cost less.
As for height restrictions, they really aren’t that significant anywhere other than the seaport. Besides, personally I don’t want Boston to be New York skyscraper dense, I want it to be Paris dense, with more 4-6 story apartments, which are not affected by flight paths at all.
commentsOnPizza t1_j676xup wrote
They were looking to do a small (but greater) amount of commercial flights out of Hanscom, but residents hate the idea and throw up enough opposition to kill most things. There was interest in using Hanscom for some flights like to NYC - things that don't warrant a 757 or anything large. It wouldn't replace Logan, but it could handle some flights except that residents are hugely opposed to it.
rickb112358 t1_j68gi9s wrote
I think some of those small NYC flights ended up heading out to Worcester. I wish there were more flights out there actually, it's a great little airport!
drowsylacuna t1_j65tv48 wrote
Do we want more housing on low lying fill though? Eastie and Chelsea are some of the most vulnerable areas already iirc.
commentsOnPizza t1_j67hdw3 wrote
It's possible that it could have done both. The Blue line already curves toward the airport before curving away to the Airport stop. If they put a stop at Santarpio's, had it go under the East Boston Memorial Park to the airport, and loop back to stop either at the current Airport stop or a new stop just east between Putnam and Prescott, that would give really good neighborhood coverage while also hitting the airport.
There are definitely ways where it could serve both.
Even if you don't like the detour to Logan, the Elizabeth Line in London has some trains go to Heathrow and some not. If we could rewind time, maybe instead of building the Silver Line and the Ted Williams Tunnel, it would make more sense to have the Blue Line have two different terminuses. One leg terminates at Logan and one leg goes to Wonderland.
Burying I-93 was really important, but maybe public transit could have gotten more love and we could have put a bit less into the highways.
clauclauclaudia t1_j69sth8 wrote
The GLX was supposed to have been part of the Big Dig remediation. It just finally opened.
tacknosaddle t1_j651ifs wrote
You realize that the blue line was built long before air travel was commonplace, right?
[deleted] t1_j653c48 wrote
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tacknosaddle t1_j6550gr wrote
Yes, and if you read what I wrote I never claimed that it was. I said it was before air travel was commonplace.
The airport station opened in 1952 which was when someone taking a flight somewhere was considered a pretty big deal. To the point that the passengers would buy a new outfit and the whole family was likely to come and see them off.
[deleted] t1_j656h1j wrote
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tacknosaddle t1_j658yjd wrote
It was less that they didn't know and more that there wasn't the demand or ability to do it. The tunnel under the harbor and line that existed since the early 20th century into Eastie wasn't really near enough to the airport to extend in that direction. It made more sense to extend it to Revere as they did because the amount of people there who needed to get downtown was a much larger driver than people who needed to get to the airport.
bostonguy2004 t1_j652kgl wrote
Hahaha same, talk about a lie with the name of the Blue Line station being "Airport".
Does anyone know the history of why they wouldn't have just built a 1 station extension or some kind of People Mover to the actual Terminals? Like they have in Chicago, Miami, Madrid, Barcelona, Stockholm....I could go on and on about cities that have trains that go all the way to the airport terminals.
AnyRound5042 t1_j65cfln wrote
You're asking why the city that doesn't have a North station-South station connection doesn't have a people mover from the airport?
spedmunki t1_j66325h wrote
Massport claimed it would cost A BILLION DOLLARS to a build pedestrian bridge with people mover.
bostonguy2004 t1_j66fdfy wrote
A Billion? It's only 1 mile or so, how is that possible?
Opposite-Body9979 t1_j66rz84 wrote
Oh it is very possible and probable, remember the big dig...$2 billion project that turned into an $8 billion disaster?
wittgensteins-boat t1_j65btrn wrote
The blue line was first.
The airport came along years later.
icona_ t1_j65sexf wrote
Does that bs exist in other cities’ airports? iirc jfk has the airtrain and then you transfer to something else, right? I just want a straight shot from airport —> city.
commentsOnPizza t1_j6701as wrote
So, I'm guessing this was more a joke than a question, but the Blue Line basically pre-dates the airport by 19 years. The East Boston tunnel was opened in 1904 and ran from Maverick to what is (basically) now Government Center with stops at what is now Aquarium and State.
The 1954 extension to Wonderland used the Boston, Revere Beach and Lynn Railroad right of way to get to Wonderland. Hence, the airport station is where it is. It wasn't really placed there so much as that was where they could get the train to go.
Back in 1954, air travel wasn't that common like it is today. Check out the airport in the 1920s: https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:cn69mx627, https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:cn69mz00f, https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:cn69mx962, https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:cn69mx848, https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:8k71nz49t. Even in 1936, it looks like basically nothing: https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:cn69mx741. Even in this image circa 1955-1964, it's still pretty primitive looking: https://repository.library.northeastern.edu/files/neu:m0472z357. It's definitely starting to take shape, but doesn't seem like that big a deal.
Ultimately, a lot of our train lines run along rights of way that already exist and it can be difficult to get new ones. Plus, diverting the train to the airport itself likely would have required quite a tight turn and the 1950s were starting to be the era when rich people wanted to use their cars. Boston was spared some of the auto-supremacy thanks to governors Volpe and Sargent, the latter who cancelled many of the highways that would have cut through Boston including the Inner Belt (which would have run through Union, Inman, Central, Cambridgeport, BU, North Brookline, and Melnea Cass Blvd), the Northwest Expressway (which would have run through Arlington, North Cambridge, Porter, and Union), and the Southwest Expressway (which is where the Orange Line is today).
Yes, it's disappointing that the Blue Line isn't closer to the airport, but given the time it was built and the right of way that existed, it seems less ridiculous. And as bad as it is, most American cities basically don't have public transit...though how I'd love something like DCA where the stop is right at the terminal. At least we were spared three additional highways cutting our city apart?
AKiss20 t1_j663ysc wrote
Rumor is he was spotted around Dulles…
spedmunki t1_j64ver8 wrote
Yeah, the older I get and the more I travel the less I think proximity to downtown is a benefit. There’s a lot of airports in Europe that are like 30 miles outside the city center, but can be reached directly by transit faster than I could ever drive the <10 miles from Roslindale to Logan.
That, and how the airport being nearby limits development in the city since there are strict height guidelines on approach paths.
I’d rather have the airport be in Framingham with a train straight from South Station…
jenkneefur28 OP t1_j64xde2 wrote
Blue line baby, runs 24/7, 365. It was def one of the big factors I decided to stay in ths south loop of chicago. Chicago has two airports too! Trains go to both from the loop. The loop while not ideal now is a whole lot better than Bostons downtown.
aray25 t1_j64zto8 wrote
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think the Blue Line used the loop.
jenkneefur28 OP t1_j6501rj wrote
All the lines meet in the loop, the blue isnt elevated.
niftyjack t1_j65g1ie wrote
The blue line and the red line are subways under the elevated loop, but there are free transfers between them when you leave the subway stop and tap back into the elevated stop (or vice versa). It also serves the "loop" neighborhood, which is the area around the physical loop.
nluken t1_j65qbse wrote
On the flip side, moving the airport to Framingham would make the trek from where I'm at much worse, and most (but not all) of the people who live without cars in the city would have a much longer commute. I honesty don't think it would have much of an impact on the median commute time to the airport. For every person in Rozzie or Newton that might have a better trip, there's another in Saugus or Everett that would have to travel further.
I agree with you about the development cost of Logan's proximity to downtown though. The building height cap is unfortunate.
spedmunki t1_j662n0v wrote
I guess I should clarify that I didn’t mean move it to Framingham and have it serviced by the current commuter rail, but to have something similar to Europe where it’s 20-30 miles outside the city with a direct high speed transit line.
rygo796 t1_j66ib9b wrote
Providence Airport is on the commuter rail already. If they ever operate high speed trains (hah) it could be 30.min from south station.
temp4adhd t1_j65rc1i wrote
You can always fly out of Manchester airport or TF Green, if you are on North Shore or South Shore it may make sense (and could even be cheaper).
But I live in Charlestown and without traffic the airport is 7 minutes away. With traffic, I think the worst has been 20 minutes. Heck I can even take a water taxi to the airport.
fremenator t1_j65dsmc wrote
We desperately need a real subway connection directly inside Logan like many other cities have. The silver line is a fucking disgrace and shouldn't even count as bus rapid transit as it literally gets stuck in traffic! It's a glorified taxi at that point.
tacknosaddle t1_j651s5o wrote
> I’ve always heard Bostons airport being so close was a pro
I saw an old ad for one of the airport hotels that said, "Conveniently located 1 1/2 miles from downtown Boston!"
I had to laugh to myself at the people who booked there not realizing that they would be an hour and a half away too.
temp4adhd t1_j65ro2o wrote
But you can take a water taxi from the airport hotel. Not necessarily cheap, but it's fun.
jenkneefur28 OP t1_j64ve3y wrote
I frequent, back and forth between Boston and Chicago, every week. Staying in the South Loop. Never had I had too much of any sort of delay on the blue line. I generally give myself an hour.
Also, I am getting used to all the smoking of cigarettes and weed on the L. No one gives any fucks.
axpmaluga t1_j6525do wrote
You’re doing this every week but work won’t let you expense an Uber? Or you’re doing it for personal travel so can buy the plane tickets but not the taxi?
RustedChainsaw t1_j65k2qr wrote
I frequently fly out of O'Hare in Chicago for work travel and I usually take the blue line even though I can expense an Uber simply because I don't need to worry about beating traffic. I've done it so many times for personal travel that it's not difficult for me.
jenkneefur28 OP t1_j66lyhx wrote
Personal. So no expensing anything. I use points to go back and forth because I have a jetblue card that I use everything for and pay immediately.
ValkyriesOnStation t1_j65dt0h wrote
It's insane that there is no train that actually runs to Logan.
_Karagoez_ t1_j65eslu wrote
You’re operating under the assumption that
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we have the ability to make good decisions
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we have the political will to force through good decisions
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we have the capability to act on said decisions
Judging by the MBTA, big dig, and every other infrastructure project in North America in the last fifty years, what you’re saying is crazy talk
CommonNotCommons t1_j65ozbr wrote
I agree, but there’s a free shuttle from Airport.
ValkyriesOnStation t1_j663rip wrote
I've used that shuttle dozens of times. On good days, sure. It's fine. But have you ever had to stand on it, shoulder to shoulder, with 40+ lbs of luggage, for 45 minutes while stuck in traffic? Just to get to South Station?
[deleted] t1_j65pkxu wrote
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hoopbag33 t1_j65xnmk wrote
Its 2 stops on the blue line to Aquarium lol. Just because you don't want to take it doesnt mean it doesnt work.
Terminal to T shuttle is 10 mins max. You're on the blue line for about 5 minutes and you can be walking into the north end.
rygo796 t1_j66hhxp wrote
Don't forget all the traffic from people who have to get to/from Logan by car compounding regular city traffic.
[deleted] t1_j65p9vw wrote
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