Legal Question (Rental Agent Related)

Submitted by puglord t3_10kb9wa in boston

Moved to Boston from out of state. We looked at a place and didn't really like it, the guy that unlocked the door for us says he could show us some more places if we see something we like. I found a few places and he unlocked a few more front doors for us, we went with one.

My wife remembers him saying the words broker fee in one of the apartments but she didn't know what that meant and he didn't elaborate. So I sign my lease online and the following day I receive an email requesting one months rent for something called a "broker fee". I assumed it was a scam, trashed and forgot about the email.

Fast forward to today I am emailed by an attorney threatening to sue me to compensate this dude with exactly a month's rent for unlocking 5 fucking doors for me. I did a little bit of research and found a regulation on mass.gov that reads:

>"Brokers and salespersons engaged in renting real property, whether by written agreement or not, shall provide each prospective tenant for whom he or she charges a fee, with a written notice that states that the prospective tenant will pay a fee for such service, the amount of the fee, the manner and time in which the fee is to be paid and whether or not any fee or any portion thereof will be payable by the tenant if a tenancy is not created. This written notice must be given by the real estate broker or salesperson at the first personal meeting between the broker or salesperson and a prospective tenant. It must be signed by the real estate broker or salesperson, contain the license number of such broker or salesperson, be signed by the prospective tenant and contain the date such notice was given by the broker or salesperson to the prospective tenant."

Looking for advice here, seems like I unfortunately got help with my rental situation from a slimy motherfucker.

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a_swarm_of_nuns t1_j5pjemg wrote

Sounds like you need to read the lease you signed online. If you agreed to pay this “broker fee”, well then that’s on you.

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puglord OP t1_j5pjikj wrote

The lease doesn’t mention a broker fee.

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AceyAceyAcey t1_j5poh3i wrote

Did you sign anything else when you first met this realtor? That’s when they usually do it, when they’re asking for your name and stuff, you write it down on a document that says they’ll charge a realtor’s/broker’s fee. It’s so normal here, I’d probably just pay it unfortunately.

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puglord OP t1_j5poqqm wrote

No we didn’t sign anything. I’ve looked back through all of the correspondence. Nothing there, not in the lease, it was only sent and explained after I signed the lease which is why I assumed it was fishy.

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AceyAceyAcey t1_j5ppsm7 wrote

Then just ask them to show documentation before you pay. It’s not “fishy,” it’s sadly common here, but the law says you have to be notified up front for them to collect.

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Sardoniosophy t1_j5puomr wrote

Agree here. I have signed docs and the broker is very clear what I'm signing. If you didn't have a signed agreement, which in my experience has been separate from the lease (but not always!!!), it can't be enforced. They could push back and say it was a verbal contract but that would be pretty hard to prove in court in this case I'd imagine.

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savory_thing t1_j5snuvq wrote

Wouldn’t be too hard to prove if the broker’s lawyer sees this thread.

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Sardoniosophy t1_j5tiqe2 wrote

Not true as OP has not stated that there was a verbal agreement they're trying to weasel out of. Rather that not only was there no written agreement, a verbal one also does not exist to the best of their knowledge.

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puglord OP t1_j5ujv2t wrote

In my defense I’m not attempting to weasel out of something, this is ignorance on my end. My wife asked what we’d pay up front. He told her first-last rent, deposit, and broker fee. What he didn’t do was elaborate on that last thing. No papers were ever offered and no agreement was ever made.

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Sardoniosophy t1_j5umgxk wrote

Yup! That's exactly what I'm getting from your post. Hence I don't think this thread could be used against you as was mentioned by the other commenter assuming the broker or their lawyer were to find this.

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therealcmj t1_j5pz94o wrote

I am not a lawyer. So this is not legal advice, etc.

As the other responder said: ask them for the agreement you signed that said you’d pay a broker fee.

A verbal agreement won’t count - under contract law any such agreement would require “meeting of the minds” meaning you and the agent understood the same thing. You’re from out of town and had no idea what the broker fee meant so clearly you didn’t have an agreement.

If the agency didn’t have you sign an agreement I’m betting the person who showed you the properties is going to be in trouble with their boss. And that if you just ask them for the signed agreement where you agreed to the broker fee of one months rent they’ll shove off.

You may want to have a lawyer send their lawyer a letter though for emphasis.

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frenetix t1_j5pji4w wrote

Welcome to Boston, where the "broker fee" is a time-honored tradition. Waaay back in 2001, a friend of mine was moving out of her apartment at the same time I was looking for one. I ended up paying one months' "broker fee" and all the broker did is literally hand me the key.

When my lease was up, my landlord (I think he owned a bunch of apartments) tried to sue me for not returning the keys to the broker.

You didn't get scammed any more than anyone else who rents in the city. If anything you should look at all paperwork and check to see if the "written notice" was there in 5-point text.

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sarcasticlhath t1_j5pn6q8 wrote

It was also probably a part of the ad you saw for the first apartment or on listings for the other apartments you look at. OP- it's a racket, but not a scam.

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elijha t1_j5pjo7t wrote

What's the question? You found the relevant law. Throw it back in their face. Tell them to produce this agreement or pound sand. Assuming you're not forgetting that you signed this thing, they won't be able to and they won't have a leg to stand on.

But I'm also curious where you're from that a broker's fee is such a completely alien concept?

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and_dont_blink t1_j5pla05 wrote

>But I'm also curious where you're from that a broker's fee is such a completely alien concept?

I agree with the rest what you're saying, but be aware broker fees are a real rarity elsewhere and aren't as entrenched as they are in the Boston area. You might see them in NYC if you are struggling to find a place, but rarely elsewhere unless you specifically go to a broker agency (and even then they're often hired by the landlords rather than the renter).

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ooolooi t1_j5posqb wrote

Yeah this is right- when I got my first apartment in college with 2 roommates, we got the bog-standard Boston lease with brokers fee/last month up front. We all sent it to our parents to check if it looked reasonable, and our parents (PA, CA, WA) were like "all seems normal except this extra month of rent for no reason???" pretty much exactly like OP said.

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puglord OP t1_j5pk107 wrote

St Louis, MO. Rented a couple places there and never paid or was asked to pay anything more than rent + security deposit.

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TakenOverByBots t1_j5s56zd wrote

How do rental agents make money then? Real question.

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northeasternlurker t1_j5s787u wrote

Property owner pays them

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some1saveusnow t1_j5smvqo wrote

Yes, It’s all supply and demand that prevents the owners from having to pay a dime. In other markets there can be brokers but they are paid by the owners

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puglord OP t1_j5tc1vp wrote

I’ve never encountered a rental agent. Property managers or landlords advertise the rental and people respond to the ad. Lived in a handful of Midwest cities and never had to deal with a middleman when renting.

They do exist, and they’re paid by the landlord.

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[deleted] t1_j5tr9i5 wrote

Some areas wouldn’t even know what a rental agent is. I have agent friends in suburban locations that wouldn’t touch a rental even if it did stray their way.

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DJ_Gordon_Bombay t1_j5ppnep wrote

1 month broker fee is totally standard in Boston. It's fucking ridiculous. Unless it's being shown by the owner, or is a large complex w a dedicated leasing agent, you're paying it almost everywhere.

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Chappy_Sinclair_ t1_j5po4vw wrote

You just discovered the broker fee. Welcome to Boston.

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SpindriftRascal t1_j5q8bg5 wrote

If you didn’t agree to pay the fee (which may be agreed to by using broker services after getting the appropriate notice), then you are in good position to push back. You could tell the lawyer you’re from out of state, never heard of the fee, certainly never agreed to it, and don’t want to pay it. Next move would be theirs.

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[deleted] t1_j5qot6l wrote

[deleted]

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puglord OP t1_j5qp8no wrote

Thank you. It’s all pretty bizarre to me. I’ve lived in the apartment for over two months already and it’s just now a thing.

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bb5199 t1_j5tpw7y wrote

Ask to see the signed document. They will probably not respond if the document doesn't exist.

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hemingwai t1_j5pqdsh wrote

Yeah broker fee is standard buddy. Unfortunately realtors dont work for free here.

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ooolooi t1_j5pvfiu wrote

Yeah they don't work for free anywhere else either, but it's just in Boston that they work entirely for the landlord but get paid by the tenant.

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hemingwai t1_j5pvlor wrote

The good ones get paid by both 😏

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Chappy_Sinclair_ t1_j5pto5u wrote

You mean "door unlockers" that escort you from place to place while you tour possible places to live.

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some1saveusnow t1_j5sn2ay wrote

Isn’t that what real estate agents are? In sales as well? You might say there are more to sales deals- yes, but there’s also more money. And rental deals often involve a lot more than just unlocking doors. Maybe yours didn’t, but most do.

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