Anubra_Khan t1_itfx12d wrote
Technically it's not the Series S holding games back but Microsoft's requirement forcing devs to develop for it.
2 years into current gen and Xbox still has only 3 titles that aren't also available on Xbox One. Flight Simulator, Scorn and Gotham Knights. 2 of those were released within the past 2 weeks and one of those is also on PS5. If devs would have been allowed to make games for Series X without the Series S requirement, they may have had a more modern lineup.
Meanwhile, PS5 exclusives like Returnal, Kena, Ratchet and Clank and (exlusive at the time) Deathloop cleaned up various gaming awards last year.
The Series S is a super cool system for what it's capable of in such a small box but, in hindsight, it appears Microsoft's implementation of it has held them back big time.
PocketDog t1_itg1f6n wrote
Ironically, Deathloop is on Series S now. Works really well.
1northfield t1_itgbb8m wrote
You are forgetting that PlayStation themselves are holding back next gen, they continue to produce PS4’s even today (Xbox discontinued the Xbox One production in 2020) and their biggest game of the year, God of War was chosen to be produced cross gen as were plenty of others. The reality is generations makes no difference in producing great games, and allowing more people to experience great games through a lower entry point is all good for the industry, the Arkham Knights argument doesn’t stack up when you see how poorly it runs (comparatively) on a 4090 which is much much more powerful than a PS5 or Series X/S, it’s just a poorly optimised game period. Watch Spawnwaves interview with MVG and see what a balanced view is, the series s has limitations but doesn’t hold generations back even if that is a real thing.
Anubra_Khan t1_itgdxs4 wrote
You're missing the point completely. Sony isn't forcing developers to make all games compatible with under-performing hardware like Microsoft is.
Sony is the only system that currently has any truly current gen software 2 years after launch.
I'm not making an "argument", just stating facts pertinent to OP's post. Your point that there are good games on older generations is obvious and irrelevant to this thread. Nobody in this thread is saying otherwise. This thread is simply recognizing the fact that Series S has held Xbox development back while Sony has already generated GOTY candidates and award winners that are current gen only. This could include current gen/PC exclusive since xbox will never make truly exclusive goty candidate since they will all be available for PC on release.
There is no console war.
1northfield t1_itgkuza wrote
And neither is Xbox, no developer is forced to put any games on any system unless first party. What makes a next gen game next gen, please have a think about it
Anubra_Khan t1_itgpbhi wrote
Well yes they are. That's...the story. Developers (not fanboys) are complaining that Microsoft is requiring them to design to 2 different specs. The Series S AND the Series X. If you want to make a game for Series S, Microsoft is requiring that you make a Seirs S version.
1northfield t1_itgrz45 wrote
‘IF’ you ‘WANT’ Is not the language used when you are saying people are forced, they can just develop for PS5 instead can’t they? The developer you are basing the argument on is a character designer on ‘I am fish’ and ‘Surgeon Simulator’ not what I would call a particularly top tier dev and you haven’t answered my question about what makes a game next gen?
Anubra_Khan t1_itgx07l wrote
I was actually referring to Rocksteady calling it a potato but ok.
I'm not here to field your redundant questions. I don't know what "next gen" will be. Current gen is PS5/Series X. You can tell when you see zero load times in games like Demon's Souls Remake, Returnal, Ratchet and Clank, etc. 4k at 60fps is another trademark with some having lower res options at 120fps like Nioh 2. Those are some examples of what makes a game current gen. I have no idea what next gen will be.
amcman15 t1_itgzv32 wrote
Bro just stop. This dude unironically pulled the "Microsoft isn't forcing you to do anything, you can just develop for PS5!" card.
Like way to be technically correct in a completely irrelevant way.
Anubra_Khan t1_ith0tss wrote
I know! I almost fell out of my chair when I read that one.
amcman15 t1_ith1xr7 wrote
I think the best part is that it completely undermines his own argument. People ditching Xbox development for PS5 because of the Series S requirement would qualify as hindering development on the platform.
Of course, using his hyper-literal narrow-definitions I imagine his response would be that since they decided to develop for PS5 instead, there is no Xbox development occuring and therefore nothing is being hindered.
Keep in mind this is coming from someone who thinks the Series S complaints are overblown. Not ideal for sure but so far, most of the complaints seem to be devs using it as a shield to excuse poorly optimized games.
Anubra_Khan t1_ith6g4c wrote
The cherry picking of some points and ignorong others has me rolling, too.
I like the Series S. I think it's pretty awesome for what it's capable of and at it's price point. Microsoft, at some point during development, had to make a decision on whether or not to force developers to make games for both systems (or just develop for Sony, I guess).
That's a tough decision as I think it through. If some games are only available on Series X, then the Series S is really becomes just an Xbox One X Pro. I understand why they would come to an agreement with developers to code for both. The result puts them a little behind the 8 ball 2 years after launch, though.
I also agree that some devs could use this to shed some responsibility when their games suck as a result. This is exactly what we're seeing with Gotham Knights. I'm not sure it's the smartest move to go public with your complaints if you're trying to maintain a good relationship with MS.
1northfield t1_iu3bwq7 wrote
Might be worth watching the new Digital Foundry video, it shows that Gotham Knights is CPU bound so regardless of your graphics card power, your frame rate is limited by the CPU, just an FYI, the Series S CPU is slightly more powerful than the PS5’s, the Rocksteady character artist calling the Series S a potato just sounds like BS.
1northfield t1_itgxqqj wrote
Just an FYI, PS5 rarely hits native 4K, also Series S has many more games that run at 120fps than the PS5 lol
Anubra_Khan t1_itgyf8h wrote
Uh huh, sure.
Just an FYI, Series S is holding developers back from doing anything innovative and that's why Microsoft's's current gen systems are stuck making last gen games even 2 years after launch. That's what this thread is about.
1northfield t1_ith0mt2 wrote
PS5 games that can run at 120fps, 30 as of 21st October, series S games that can run at 120fps, 52 as of 22 April (sorry couldn’t find an updated list so there will be some missing)
Just so you know, I have a PS5, A series X and S and a switch, so I have no corporate loyalty.
Anubra_Khan t1_ith1jd3 wrote
This is completely unrelated to anything we're talking about. Series S is holding back developers from making current gen games. That's a fact and that's the point of this thread. If you want to make your own thread that you think Series S is better than PS5 because it has more 120fps games (at 1080p) then go ahead.
1northfield t1_ith1srj wrote
I’m not trying to make that point, what I am saying is what makes a game next gen? What is the series S holding back exactly because you seem to know
Anubra_Khan t1_ith4zx7 wrote
This isn't my story. Devs and Phil Spencer have both said it's more difficult to build for to specs as opposed to one. The negative effects of that approach are showing 2 years after launch.
We're talking about current gen at this point, not next gen. The games I've already referenced (that won multiple awards last year) cannot be done on last gen consoles and are not available on last gen consoles as a result. Series X/S have only 3 games that aren't also available on Xbox One. 2 of these games have been released in the last 2 weeks. One is also available on PS5.
That's the information and it all points to Microsoft's requirement for developer's to code towards 2 different specs being a direct reason for them being unable to develop anything current gen exclusive 2 years after launch.
1northfield t1_ithdmjw wrote
You tell yourself anything that makes you happy (Deathloop is 60fps on the series s btw and also available on Xbox One via x cloud like with Flight Simulator and Scorn), can you please tell me why God of War is cross gen? I cannot understand it as PlayStation don’t have to develop for anyone other than their own console but they made it cross gen.
amcman15 t1_ith10gn wrote
You are technically correct, Microsoft doesn't have a gun to their heads so they aren't forcing the devs. But come on, can't you see how silly it is to get caught up in those semantics?
The conversation is clearly about Microsoft forcing any XSX release to work on the XSS. If you want to take "forcing" that literally it's your perogative but really besides the point.
>they can just develop for PS5 instead can’t they?
Wouldn't people abandoning Xbox development in favour of the PS5 because of the Series S requirement just illustrate how the platform is being hindered by it?
1northfield t1_ith1lzx wrote
The developers are not abandoning the series S, that’s my point
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