Submitted by tildenpark t3_11cwaph in dataisbeautiful
Comments
Liesthroughisteeth t1_ja5g6nh wrote
And everyone that has a business, will need a business license and so will every professional, be it Investment advisor, Doctor, Lawyer, Realtor, Insurance sales person, Notary, Stock Broker, Banker, Engineer, Architect, Mortgage Broker, etc etc Welcome to the world.
tildenpark OP t1_ja5hdc9 wrote
The list that I posted is for low-income jobs. Your list is high-income jobs. Some of them make sense. Others are onerous. A license to become an upholsterer, travel guide, or auctioneer seems silly to me.
st4n13l t1_ja5hgpy wrote
The source calls them "lower-income" not "low-income" which has a federal definition. How are they defining "lower-income"?
tildenpark OP t1_ja5hycr wrote
From the source:
>Originally drawn for the first edition, published in 2012, the sample comprises occupations that in 2012 were licensed by at least one state and recognized by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics as ones in which practitioners earned incomes below the national average.
st4n13l t1_ja5jdb0 wrote
I must have missed that. Hopefully by average they are referring to median and not mean.
kevnmartin t1_ja5l0g3 wrote
Milk taster?
string1969 t1_ja5mb11 wrote
I think our governor here in CO is actively trying to 'de-certify' a lot of jobs as we can't afford before actually working
tildenpark OP t1_ja5mhkx wrote
Yeah, “low-income” has a few different definitions across different agencies and years for different purposes. Sometimes it’s a multiple of a “poverty threshold” (e.g 200% of the poverty threshold) and sometimes it’s relative to median income in the area (e.g. 80% of the median family income for the area).
This survey seems to be inline with the latter. When averaging across occupational averages, median and mean are not as egregiously different as median vs mean household income as outliers are sort of accounted for across groups (kinda). But I agree with your sentiment.
SatanLifeProTips t1_ja5pw3n wrote
A lot of the American licensing is already a joke.
In Canada it takes around 4 years to get a Red Seal in various trades. The courses are tough. Drop below 70% in any subject and you fail. Fail twice and you are done. Plough through a 18-24” high stack of material in 8-10 weeks (per year) then log 6600 hours under a licensed journeyman. When you are finished you are a highly knowledgable professional capable of pulling in a high 5 low 6 figure income.
If you are smart enough, you may be allowed into trades.
I got my American ASE Master technician with a speciality in advanced engine performance in 2 weekends. Technicians are often incompetent, standards are low and there is a reason no one trusts used cars.
The attitude seems to be ‘you are too dumb to work in a cubicle so I guess go into trades.
tildenpark OP t1_ja5q9bf wrote
Milk sampler. Let your imagination run wild!
/s
Miserly_Bastard t1_ja5wwi9 wrote
There's nothing wrong with having occupational licensing for things like hair dressing. Hair dressers should know what lice are. They should know how chemical products can and can't be used. They could just read a book or watch a video and then take a test instead of spending thousands of dollars and many months of their lives to obtain a credential.
But let's say that a nail technician doesn't know about the importance of humidity control in their work environment in order for the paint to adhere. Them sucking at their job is not going to hurt anybody. A goodly number of licensed nail techs know this and...simply don't care. Humidity isn't regulated.
Another set of regulations that could be dialed back have to do with building codes for these types of service providers. They ought to be able to operate out of a van or even on a sidewalk if customers are down for that. You shouldn't have to be able to pony up for a commercial buildout with huge overhead costs in order to have your own business.
tildenpark OP t1_ja5yuh4 wrote
Point taken. Additionally, there are also differences in licensing across states. Having a hair stylist license in one state doesn’t automatically let you work in a neighboring state.
Straight-Finding7651 t1_ja60a4w wrote
The one that got me is you don’t have to be licensed to use a Crane?
Those things that you use to move several ton objects hundreds of feet in the air and can topple if you move the load too far without adjusting the counterweight? No licensing required in 35 states!?
WhiskeyTangoFoxy t1_ja61tgx wrote
We should really have a license for a CEO that is certified in ethics and business regulations. If found in breach of ethics laws they loose their license.
sysnickm t1_ja6590q wrote
There are reasons for each of those licenses. Each deal with specific nuances that a layperson can't just pick up on YouTube.
igotnocandyforyou t1_ja69g3k wrote
Wyoming is open for business.
AgentEv2 t1_ja6aau7 wrote
Licensing regulations can be especially burdensome for low-income immigrants that might’ve been barbers, etc. their whole life but they don’t have the income to pay $300 for some annual license fee and go through months/years of training/school as some apprentice barber.
A lot of licensing regulations (even for jobs where some sort of licensing/standards should be necessary) are created to be unreasonably burdensome by groups/trade associations that want to restrict the number (and therefore competition) of barbers, manicurists, florists, etc.
It’s very interesting that licensing reform is an issue that both progressives and free-market conservatives/libertarians tend to agree on.
[deleted] t1_ja6azhs wrote
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daedalus_was_right t1_ja6gvzo wrote
>or even on a sidewalk
Uh, no. The sidewalk is not a place for people to conduct business, it's a path of travel. Don't push pedestrians into the street, forcing them to risk being struck by cars because you want to cut hair on the sidewalk.
RubberDuckQuack t1_ja6h8o9 wrote
Very interesting. There are a few professions there which surprised me by only requiring licenses in a few states (Security Guard? Bartender?) and others that surprised me in that they needed a license at all (Florist lol).
I wonder what classifies as a "license" in the first place. Is a brief course proving you can competently serve (i.e. not over-serve) alcohol a "license" to a bartender? Because we have a brief test in my province in Canada for anyone who will work with alcohol, but I'm not sure I'd classify it as a "license", but at the same time you can't do the job without it.
Chagrinnish t1_ja6kuyw wrote
When a truck finishes pickup at dairy farms they perform tests to ensure there are no hormones (like BGH) or other drugs in the batch. If they do find something then they start testing the individual samples they collected from each farmer, and then the farmer responsible has to pay for the entire, tainted batch.
skiingredneck t1_ja6lhk0 wrote
WA requires a permit issued to the employee to work in fast food…
That alone…
https://doh.wa.gov/community-and-environment/food/food-worker-and-industry/food-worker-card
DM-me-ur-tits-plz- t1_ja6o2us wrote
In some cases license is just paying a small fee to get added to your local government's registry.
In others it's a more extensive training/certification process (truck drivers, for example, have to pass a specialized driving test).
Varies pretty widely. I doubt the one state that licenses florists is putting them through any course and/or test.
RubberDuckQuack t1_ja6qdr1 wrote
Ah. Difficult to draw concrete conclusions about "licensing unfairly harms poor people" if e.g. Texas requires barbers simply notify them that they're barbering and California requires that they take a 4-year college program prior to barbering, but it's still useful as an approximation I'm sure.
Interesting how Louisiana (and a lot of other southern states) rank so highly, as I don't really imagine them as being big on government regulation. I wonder if maybe that is a result of old regulations that were once used to keep out specific groups of people.
[deleted] t1_ja6u6g0 wrote
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KittyKat122 t1_ja6z770 wrote
Hard disagree. Barbers/hair dressers and nail techs need to learn about and be able to demonstrate sanitation between customers. Also you can hurt people if you don't know how use clippers or a straight razer correctly. You could hurt customers if you don't know how to properly mix or use hair dyes and bleaches. You can hurt customers if the nail tech doesn't know how to properly apply nails.
In addition regulations on business buildings for salons is necessary as they usually have equipment that have high voltage needs/water needs. If you don't have the proper outlets and water hookups you could hurt customers by short circuits and/or cause fires.
Pelvis_toucher123 t1_ja6ziwy wrote
That shit whiter than the holy light
Neowynd101262 t1_ja74xvr wrote
Ya, most of those licenses are just a bureaucratic money grab disguised as the state looking out for public interest.
FrostedMiniWhethepus t1_ja7inmj wrote
That would be dumb we have one of the fastest growing populations every year since 2010. Like in the top 10 states. I live in north aurora and I’ve seen 6 new warehouses built next to my job in the last 6 months. Why and how would they want to de certify?
Miserly_Bastard t1_ja7k0o0 wrote
Fine, fine, some sidewalks but not others. I'm thinking of the model for hot dog vendors, newspaper stands, and shoe shining in the days of yore. Those spaces were designated and leased.
Miserly_Bastard t1_ja7m366 wrote
Yeah...so get them to demonstrate their basic skills in a test and/or Zoom meeting. Anything that requires expensive equipment can be done at a testing center and could be one level up from the basic license.
But at the end of the day, if you're only clipping hair or only doing nails or only braiding, you just don't need an expensive time-consuming license to start working. You don't need more than a deep-cycle battery and inverter for your equipment.
CptnAlex t1_ja7owrp wrote
Barber… actually licensed barbers in my state tend to do just fine. I wouldn’t call them “low income”
Deep_Van t1_ja7xniq wrote
One of the factors people is moving from CA to TX
brothurbilo t1_ja7zzy1 wrote
I'm in Louisiana and was a bartender in college. We had to take a one day class and take a test to legally bartend. Basically so we knew laws about who can and can't be served alcohol. The one that threw me off is that a 16 year old can drink alcohol if he is at a table with his parents. That's for restaurants though not bars I believe.
brothurbilo t1_ja80ccx wrote
louisiana has a liscense for damn near everything. Some of them I agree with though. Bartenders are one and our state's culture with alcohol is so lax that it does get hazy on who is legal to serve to and who isn't.
kevnmartin t1_ja8b8bs wrote
And they do this by tasting it?
AcrobaticBarracuda95 t1_ja8j983 wrote
Ok google, tell me the Wyoming crime rate
thenoblitt t1_ja8p197 wrote
This is surprising. I know of multiple low income jobs that require licensing in other states but not in Idaho. Like phlebotomist and speech language pathology assistant.
TableGamer t1_ja8rszv wrote
Electrical Helper?
So what, an electrician can't simply hire a gofer, they have to hire a licensed gofer? Or are they actually allowed to sign-off on some kinds of electrical work?
[deleted] t1_ja8xg3d wrote
Chagrinnish t1_ja8zzas wrote
Yes. And then they wait four weeks to see if the taster starts growing excessive body hair, or udders, or makes a lot of "moo" sounds.
KittyKat122 t1_ja9lq2c wrote
Again, I disagree. I don't think the license should be expensive, but having making it a test to get a license is a good idea. I'm pretty sure you don't need to take any training as long as you can pass the tests. If licensing is removed, anyone can claim they can perform those tasks without the knowledge and if they don't know how the consumer gets harmed. Without regulations how does one know to learn what is needed and what isn't needed for their equipment? There are plenty of people that do hair and nails from their house without licenses, but I'm not going there.
Miserly_Bastard t1_jaa7yg1 wrote
I'll go there. My ex-wife worked without a license for a long time and bribed a school to forge hours. That way she could go straight to the test and wouldn't have to do the six months and thousands of dollars.
She worked for various businesses in various states. They all tolerated this as well as other stuff like working without a green card and keeping multiple sets of books in order to cheat taxes. Business owners themselves would routinely cut corners with regard to hygiene. They occasionally got caught but the fines were a slap on the wrist that did not prevent the behavior. Businesses being closed for health or occupational violations were very rare.
In short, it was all a farce.
What I'd have preferred to see is less onerous schooling for law-abiding people and better and stricter enforcement all around. Registration fees could be higher in order for better enforcement to exist, and in such a way they would be able to chase bad actors out of the market as well as protect consumers.
As someone who has a very different occupational license, I would also complain that the people who write licensing tests are themselves unlicensed. If they are going to turn my licensing process into a guessing game about whether I should answer the words on paper or the thoughts that are inferred to be going on in their heads, then the process is broken. Let me assure you: it's very broken.
Rhueh t1_jadeo8k wrote
>You shouldn't have to be able to pony up for a commercial buildout with huge overhead costs in order to have your own business.
It can be even more ridiculous than that, sometimes. A friend of mine started a food-related business that required him to install stainless steel plumbing in his rented commercial space. Fair enough. But he then discovered that tenancy regulations prevented the landlord from "upgrading" only one unit. So, my friend had to pay to to have stainless steel plumbing installed in all the units (a six-figure expense) even though none of the other businesses required or even wanted it.
tildenpark OP t1_ja5d9iu wrote
Data are from the 3rd Edition of the License to Work national survey, published in 2022 (link)
Visualization in Python with plotly.
Data consider 101 Low-Income Jobs:
Number of States Requiring License // Job Title