Comments
pugwalker t1_j8mtt4j wrote
Nothing else happened around 2020 right? Must have been brexit that did it...
rmoritz t1_j8n7byw wrote
Do you think covid disproportionally affected U.S. or U.K.? If not, then were there other events in 2020 that affected one more than the other?
pugwalker t1_j8qashz wrote
Covid impact is not uniform and it is absolutely a bigger factor than brexit the last few years. It’s not even up for debate tbh.
RelativeAssistant923 t1_j8weymu wrote
It's relative impact on the UK vs the US isn't up for debate? Source?
wansuitree t1_j8mhp15 wrote
> I’m adamantly pro-EU and voted remain, but
??? What does your opinion got to do with a graph not showing a "deepened gap", when OP still want to make believe the graph shows a "deepened gap"?
92835 t1_j8mix3f wrote
As objective as data hypothetically should be, interpretation is subject to biases. It was to clarify that my interpretation that the graph does not show that large a shock from Brexit was not in bad faith as motivated by a desire to defend Brexit instead being my honest reading of the graph.
wansuitree t1_j8mkznc wrote
>not show that large a shock
It doesn't show a shock at all. It shows an increase from the date Brexit became definite, and a decrease from the date the pandemic and subsequent lockdowns started.
Your bias definitely shines through, as does OP's.
kerbidiah15 t1_j8mvu70 wrote
He is biased against brexit
wansuitree t1_j8mwb1e wrote
Exactly. As are many more here seeing the downvotes I'm getting.
dyingsong t1_j8mj276 wrote
The commenter is stating that they are not trying to discount the effects of Brexit, and disclaiming that their bias is actually the opposite of what one may expect of someone stating a reason why something may not actually be painting a bad light on Brexit.
wansuitree t1_j8mlipo wrote
>trying to discount the effects of Brexit
You mean the effects shown in this graph? An increase since Brexit became formal in 2017?
Everyone has already made their minds up that Brexit is bad for Britain, and people can't even get rid of their bias with data stating the opposite.
It's the same with disclaimers like "I know Putin is the incarnation of the antichrist, but..." and then a discussion about the actual facts can begin.
Just get rid of your damn media-constructed preconceptions and approach the subject with an open mind. No disclaimers needed. Anyone replying with a partisan/political closed mind can fuck right off and be ignored easily, don't try to cater to them.
soldforaspaceship t1_j8n4ged wrote
Brexit didn't become formal in 2017. What are you talking about? They had barely started negotiations at that point.
wansuitree t1_j8n51q6 wrote
What are YOU fucking talking about?
"On 29 March 2017, the British government formally began the withdrawal process by invoking Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union with permission from Parliament."
soldforaspaceship t1_j8n5bp5 wrote
Can you not read what you wrote? They began the withdrawal process then. They had not left as they were negotiating what leaving would look like. January 31 2020 was when they finally left.
[deleted] t1_j8ndxv8 wrote
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everlasting1der t1_j8kxsao wrote
This needs to have separate lines for absolute GDP rather than a single ratio line; it's pretty misleading because you don't see where both metrics rose or fell in tandem.
LonelyPumpernickel t1_j8mpko7 wrote
I think that’s ok for me. Because if both rose together or fell together the ratio between them would be the same.
What I’m unsure of here is exchange differences. As that could affect the real world difference between the two. Doesn’t matter if the US markets grew at double the rate if the dollar lost half its value along the way.
trollin2023 t1_j8kebsc wrote
"Damn- I love me some war!!"
-The US economy
rammo123 t1_j8l386i wrote
"Specifically wars that decimate all of our economic competitors"
Level-Newspaper-7536 t1_j8logqe wrote
Haha, how have we decimated your economy?
ImAwfulAtNames1 t1_j8lpnwy wrote
Lol why do you think the US economy exploded so much after WWII? Europe got fucked up the ass production-wise, and there weren’t many other competitors
Level-Newspaper-7536 t1_j8lquhn wrote
Are you kidding? Yall begged us to join and send you arms because you bankrupted your own economies. Its not that US domination after WWII allowed them to become the economic center of the world, its that our economic dominance allowed us to bail you out of the war. Heck, we even rebuilt your economies after the war free of charge yet you still complain (see Marshall plan).
The US began to rebound from the depression BEFORE we entered the war in any capacity.
ImAwfulAtNames1 t1_j8lska0 wrote
I’m from the US 💀 by time we entered the war everything was fucked so yeah I mean you aren’t wrong in saying that we were up before we entered the war but it’s not like that was 100% our doing
Level-Newspaper-7536 t1_j8prl22 wrote
You responded to my comment implying that you were not an American. When I said we (America) did not decimate your (Europe's) economy, you responded implying you were European.
What? Read my original comment. We did not decimate Europes economy. That was my point. They did it to themselves.
Level-Newspaper-7536 t1_j8lohki wrote
Thats why Afghanistans economy grew 10x after our intervention.
Level-Newspaper-7536 t1_j8lokad wrote
We've grown year on year regardless of whether we were involved in any conflict.
Try again.
Also, you guys want to lecture us on wanting war? Really? After you forced us into your conflicts.
debunk_this_12 t1_j8lcy2s wrote
Too early to tell the effect of brexit. And decoupling brexit from covid and russia Ukraine is nearly impossible.
Plastic-Guarantee-88 t1_j8naer6 wrote
Yep.
And Russia/Ukraine hurt the UK more than the US, since the US is more energy independent. The UK has less nuclear power than the US or continental Europe, and less domestic energy than the US.
So even though it doesn't import a ton of gas from Russia, it was still hit badly by the worldwide rise in prices. In the US, the effect was more mixed since the US exports a lot of natural gas.
oryx_za t1_j8k5zu4 wrote
It's a great metric as it accounts for a lot.
My only critic it is not the goal on brexit as much as you think.
I am 100% against Brexit but playing devils advocate. We entered the EEC is the late 60. If you look at the graph, we took a greater knock then vs now.
Edit: we joined in 73, but the point remains.
Just-Quit-8034 t1_j8kk1f9 wrote
Oil crisis was that period
oryx_za t1_j8mhvlp wrote
But that's it point. The UK has taken other knocks that are not necessarily brexit relates. E.g. We took a greater hit on natural gas prices.
So to blame this on Brexit alone seems premature based on this data set.
What would be interesting if to take this same metric from the beginning of the eurozone and compare uk, us and the EU.
silvses t1_j8mt0sy wrote
Depends on how you view it. It couldve also prevented from falling it further with EC acting as a buffer to stagflation. Would be worthwhile to look into actions taking during that period.
The graph is relative to US, most countries around that time period were also growing exponentially. That high growth was same in UK which means they didn't lag on development.
Exp1ode t1_j8m7g1i wrote
>we joined in 73, but the point remains.
So the graph was trending slowly downwards after joining, and had a sharp jump after leaving
sparkyhodgo t1_j8k6urm wrote
The most surprising thing to me is the dip after the US Civil War. I had expected a sharp uptick from the USA once industrialization prevailed, but perhaps the situation in the postbellum South skewed the numbers.
oryx_za t1_j8k8ebj wrote
Don't forget what the British were doing during that period.
absolute_yote t1_j8mqhv9 wrote
What’s that
oryx_za t1_j8n2knc wrote
Building up the largest empire on earth. They pretty much peaked in the 1900s
SpreadEagleCros_s t1_j8mscr6 wrote
Between Jackson and the creation of the Federal Reserve, the USA had an extremely unstable banking system. In the latter half of the 19th century after the Civil War, the US economy was beset by financial panics that caused depressions much longer and more severe than the ones seen today. For instance, the Panic of 1873 lasted 6 years and saw double digit unemployment. The Panic of 1893 lasted 4 years. Still, there kind of is a sharp uptick that you see on this graph. It’s just that the World Wars were the much more important events in boosting America to the place in the world it has today (and conversely, in weakening Great Britain)
TheNightIsLost t1_j8srb3h wrote
> instance, the Panic of 1873 lasted 6 years and saw double digit unemployment. The Panic of 1893 lasted 4 years.
The Great Depression lasted for 12 years of high unemployment, and it happened AFTER the Fed was made.
[deleted] t1_j8sugzh wrote
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B_P_G t1_j8lq7iu wrote
That ratio's been pretty flat since the 1950s. Brexit hasn't deepened anything. Also, Brexit was in 2016. They may not have fully implemented it until years later but its effects were baked into the cake the second it was passed. What the graph is showing with 2020 is the effects of the pandemic and pandemic-era policies.
professorwhiskers87 t1_j8mpsmv wrote
But Reddit tells me that Europe is a wealthy paradise compared to America?!
jrm19941994 t1_j8mqp55 wrote
Wow massive spike, almost as big as those random wiggles in the 1830s
FlickJagger t1_j8l9pre wrote
This data has a lot of scope for improvement. The x axis could be simplified outside of the grey areas. That way it wouldn’t look so cluttered.
coromandelmale t1_j8lr8bx wrote
War and self imposed sanctions are not good for the UK
JustCopyingOthers t1_j8m3nyx wrote
Interesting how the discovery of and exploitation of a large natural resource, North Sea gas, had no noticeable effect on the UK economy relative to the US.
nikbott t1_j8mlt7t wrote
The 1929 crisis should definitely be highlighted.
drLagrangian t1_j8n2jrg wrote
I'd love to see a version of this with British history in addition to American. Britain didn't participate in the American Civil war, but they had their own wars in the mean time that may have affected things.
avl0 t1_j8n5aef wrote
Yes it was definitely brexit responsible for the spike in 2020, nothing else important happened that year.
Fucking moron.
HolyGig t1_j8lsac3 wrote
The US outstripped the UK economy because it makes up the good chunk of an entire continent while the UK is the size of Michigan. A continent with a disgusting overabundance of natural resources and a massive population far larger than any other western nation I might add. Comparing US geographical advantages to those of the UK is like matching up an infant to fight Mike Tyson.
The US economy dwarfed the UK economy well before WWII, interested data but that war only accelerated the inevitable.
incraved t1_j8m56j2 wrote
This is per capita btw
amadmongoose t1_j8mc411 wrote
I kind of also feel that the comparison from start of graph until WW1 is not quite right to exclude the colonial possessions of the UK from the UK numbers (and likewise does US include or exclude historical and current colonial holdings like Philippines and Puerto Rico?). While it does work to compare economic output of the existing geographical areas ignoring colonialism also ignores the associated economic impacts
tabthough OP t1_j8k44ng wrote
Source: https://www.measuringworth.com/datasets/ukgdp/, https://www.measuringworth.com/datasets/usgdp/
Tools: Excel, PowerPoint
Brexit is really the premier league's greatest self-goal
92835 t1_j8ki5b5 wrote
I’m not sure how much this does say about Brexit. I’m adamantly pro-EU and voted remain, but as sudden changes go on the graph the Brexit one is rather tame.